how others see us

[HOCOLITE]

[quote="Neil M35"]
– well to leave your car door blocking the pavement is fairly inconsiderate, even if it isn’t illegal and you get round to closing it when you’ve finished pulling your pants up.


This issue should be watched bearing(not baring) in mind exposure is an offence. OD had a letter of complaint about Orienteers changing in the car park, and it being offensive to their children.

[Adventure Racer]

Doing AR, my personal modesty went out of the window long ago - I do remember being filmed at a transition many years ago (before I did orienteering) and suggesting that they might not want to film the next bit as I was changing shorts! I guess this goes even futher back to changing after canoeing on a cold river bank, when worrying about what other people could see was the last thing on my mind.

However having said that, the general public generally don't want to see naked bodies, so the rule I used to apply when canoeing is that if it was just canoeists around then I didn't worry at all, but if there was anybody else around I'd use a towel. I'd be rather more careful at an orienteering event, as I'm sure there are plenty of orienteers around who don't want to see naked bodies either (and you don't get as cold as you can be coming off the water after canoeing, so there's not as much urgency), so I'd always at least hide behind a towel. That seems quite a reasonable thing to do to me - though some people still seem to be upset by what I would think perfectly normal, like stripping down to a bare chest.

I have a feeling I'm going to get in trouble here, but I very much doubt the woman's children found the sight of a naked body offensive - it was only her getting offended on their behalf. Children generally don't find anything strange or exciting about nudity until taught otherwise. Doesn't mean we shouldn't take her complaint seriously, but I do sometimes wonder whether changing behind a towel with a bare chest, which I think is perfectly reasonable, would be enough to get some people upset.

[redkite]

John makes some good points. It would be a good idea to put up a few prominent notices of what we are doing and appologising for an inconvienience.

Should also consider putting up a few notices to try and get the general public to find out more about the sport. BIG O DIRECTION SIGNS, EVEN BIGGER O EVENT SIGNS and plenty of other signs sayinggo to enquiries to find out more.

Do we ever have leaflets to hand out about the sport at an event?

[openadventure]

Earlier this week I was having tea and a chat with someone from a national park office. I was commenting on the difficulty of not only finding areas suitable for MTBing and Running but also had adquate parking.

As the conversation continued I commented almost as a matter of praise that it amazed me that Orienteering clubs did well to find suitable locations and accomodate such large numbers of cars.

For a good five minutes this quiet pleasent chap completely lost his rag - his perception of parking at orienteering events was of cars parked on narrow roads, damaging verges and blocking access.

For five minutes I was embarrassed to occasionally call myself an orienteer.

Before anyone asks - no I didn't ask for locations, dates, clubs or am I going to disclose his name. My point is merely that someone of considerble influence has a negative perception of orienteers.

[Oldman]

.

Before anyone asks - no I didn't ask for locations, dates, clubs or am I going to disclose his name. My point is merely that someone of considerble influence has a negative perception of orienteers.

I am disappointed: as I said earlier in this thread, every such person represents an opportunity to set things right. Perhaps what he was calling orienteering wasn't organised O at all? Or if you knew some venues and dates, you could have offered to follow it up and try to prevent recurrences. Seems unlikely to me that someone in a NP would have such a negative view unless he had another hidden agenda (or we have been doing some crazy parking in recent years!).

[guest]

Just before anyone jumps in and completely overreact to my general comment... yes of course there are times when, of nothing else, it is simply more expedient to butter up members of the public...

But, there is simply no pleasing some people, and trying to win them around is a complete waste of time... at which point we all need to stand up for our rights (that's rights and not opinions, wants, etc.) and tell people that if they don't like what we are doing it is their problem and not ours.

The other day I was at an event in the New Forest and as I came out of some woodland I had to climb over a fence, which I did by holding the top strand and simply stepping over (long legs). As I did it a dog walker said (with attitude) 'there's a gate down there', to which I replied 'I haven't done any damage'. He then went bananas and shouted, 'yes you did, I saw you touch it'... our brief conversation went down hill from there.

It is pretty hard to think of a way I could have made a positve impression on him, and in all honesty, I don't really care that he was upset.

[Oldman]

But, there is simply no pleasing some people, and trying to win them around is a complete waste of time... at which point we all need to stand up for our rights (that's rights and not opinions, wants, etc.) and tell people that if they don't like what we are doing it is their problem and not ours.

.....

It is pretty hard to think of a way I could have made a positve impression on him, and in all honesty, I don't really care that he was upset.

This is a classic example of answering the original question at the thread start: it is clear that at least some orienteers (e.g. Guest) can be arrogant and dismissive.

Countering concerns during a run is very tough and unrealistic, but the concern raised should then be reported to the organiser on completion as he/she must be alerted to at least one negative reaction to our activity. If the person concerned was so-minded, it could be raised (albeit unfairly) with a landowner and the organiser is better forewarned.

Standing up for our rights needs tact and sensitivity or we will create more problems than we solve. Some people are good at soothing people who are unhappy - guest should leave the job to them!

[guest]

As predicted, jumping in, etc. etc.

What makes you think that I didn't warn the organiser?

Of course I did.

But I think your response, Oldman illustrates a point that I guess I had in my mind when I posted the thing about my New Forest experience, which is ...

That whenever someone makes a complaint (e.g. the woman at the EPOC event) then a bunch of people immediately start the process of self flagelation, despite not knowing the full facts themselves. Orienteers aren't a load of thoughtless swines, but sometimes, despite everyone's best intentions there will be a bit of friction, and maybe, sometimes, the person doing the complaining will just be a whinger. I don't think I am particularly arrogant and dismissive, but there are times when you just know, immediately, that it would be pointless to try and win people round, e.g. Stalin, Pol-Pot, and the bloke I came across in the New Forest.

[Adventure Racer]

e.g. Stalin, Pol-Pot, and the bloke I came across in the New Forest.

Does the fact that you only mentioned a couple of other similar dictators and not actually Hitler mean that Godwin's Law doesn't apply?

[tendon]

It does now

[Seamus]

Would it help that the woman at the EPOC event was known in the local village as 'Wacky Wendy' ?

having spoken to the organiser, he is still in email conversation with the lady, he said she has started being a bit unreasonable in her comments. I think it all comes down to the fact she wanted the forest to herself for her Sunday walk and it was interrupted by all these people (legitimately) in the forest.

There just are some people you cannot please. As the saying goes, ‘you can please most of the people most of the time, or only some of the please all of the time’.

[John Morris]

I'm not known for my tact and diplomacy but I'm beginning to find all this stuff about "our rights" and "other people's unreasonable behaviour" just a little worrying.

My rights, taken to the limit, will always clash your rights, similarly insisted on. Ask any Danish cartoonist...

Insistence will lead to opposition and may lead to adverse decisions, affecting not only the s*lly b*gg*rs who started it but the rest of us.

It's worth remembering that more and more people want to make more and more use of less and less precious wilderness for leisure.

It's worth remembering that many land-holders and their agents look on Orienteers favourably because we are notably well-behaved and don't annoy their tenants and neighbouring communities.

It's worth remembering that "possession is nine-tenths of the law" and that more generally disputes between incomers (us) and locals are usually resolved in favours of the locals.

So, can we be - in our own interests - a little more forgiving?

And can we remember that, to anyone with a dislike of Orienteers, this publicly accessible thread has provided all the evidence they'd ever need to "Stop the Lycra Loonies!". Let's not encourage ASB-O...

[seabird]

[quote="Seamus"]Would it help that the woman at the EPOC event was known in the local village as 'Wacky Wendy' ?

I don't think it really helps the cause of public relations for us in Yorkshire, if orienteers from far away start calling members of the public with who we come into contact by deragotary names.

The lady in question has already shown she is able to access orienteering forums. Who is to say she is not accessing this forum.

[lincolnsteve]

It took me ages to find the event message board on the EPOC website & find that artical but it was a damn sight easier to find the nopesport link on the EPOC home page. Lets hope she has not found herself here already eh?

[RJ]

........ but there are times when you just know, immediately, that it would be pointless to try and win people round, .......

Yes, undoubtedly true. There are arguements that you just can't counter. Not using a gate, but crossing a fence! Really!

However, some people have their own agenda and won't be appeased or be sympathetic to your (our) point of view. What really matters is that that person's point of view when expressed to other people is not left unchallenged. This is where proactive PR works. Explain and promote what WE are about long before we have to defend a position! We are very polite, reasonable and responsible..... so we will have little trouble telling others!

We could really do with some ideas though!! We have plenty of computer expertise in the sport. Anyone know how to use PR to good effect????