how others see us

[LostOldTimer]

You dont need white lines or marshalls to be able to park in a field. this applies even if space is tight. It often occurs that marshalls insist cars park so close that the other person bangs their car door into your paintwork, or the wind blows it onto it. If the marshall insits I park as close as possible and I think there isa risk of that happening, then I would simply move further away after been parked.
A lot of these so-called marshalls have no more commensesne than the drivers.
And neither do we need marshalls to direct us out. Ones sited on exits to public roads are no use, as they are not liable if they say it is clear and it isnt anyway.

[LostOldTimer]

Hocolite wrote:Therefore if there is an instruction about departure time in the final details, that should be obeyed, it is an instruction not a rule but remember your school days you followed (or should have done) your teachers instructions just as you followed the school rules...
This may well be an 'instruction' (I thought they were just final details for information - since when were they 'instructions', BUT no-one would be able to stop anyone leaving before a certain time.

[Becks]

I hear that LOT knows a lot about parking in incorrect locations...

[HOCOLITE]

BUT no-one would be able to stop anyone leaving before a certain time.

This arrogant attitude is what loses area for clubs and orienteering in general. I'm sure that blatant disregard for items in final instructions could be handled in many ways to ensure the people realise that they have behaved irresponsibly. Public humiliation in the press is a good start, (Compass Sport is not quite the SUN but it would get the message across) initially there may not be a need to name names but persistant offenders could be named. Those who are happy to take form life and not give back get their just desserts. Thats a very moral stance I know.

[NeilC]

You dont need white lines or marshalls to be able to park in a field.

The white lines in car parks also define exit routes. It would be quite possible for a park-where-I-want type to block an exit route which the organiser had carefully planned out and which would not be immediately obvious from a driver's perspective.

[Barny of Blandford]

Being a nervous person and concerned that I might want to use the area and parking again I think I would go out of my way to build bridges and apply a bit of tender loving care - especially the flowers and chocolates that were mentioned.
The rights and wrongs are irrelevant - I would want to preserve the use of an area and make sure that my PR was in good form
But then I am only an old man and she is obviously an articulate young lady who managed to access us through the web!!!

[Oldman]

we know where this woman lives so buy flowers, chocolates etc and apologise for a poor solution to a parking overflow, and promise to look for a better solution in case it happens again.

Now that would be good PR!

I again agree totally with RJ. A converted complainer is worth her weight in gold, so let's try and convert her!

[Guest88]

I'm not sure that slagging off members of the public on here is very clever, whether or not we agree with them.

What if a local newspaper decides to run a story slagging off orienteers, and quoting some of the stuff that has been said on here about a well meaning member of the public who tried to complain.

I dare say it isn't likely but it would have quite a big impact if it did happen.

Maybe this thread should be deleted.

[guest]

Shall we see if the Yorkshire Post are interested?

[guest]

G >> after 2 years of reading your posts i don't know how you expect me to take that seriously

[Nails]

Sorry a little late with this thread. I was at the event and following a quick scan of everyones post i think it should be noted that no cars were parked illegally. The road in question was a wide 2 lane road (which to be honest was quiet with little through traffic.) Cars were parked along one side (and not on the pavement.) I think the problem was that when you park your car against the curb the door when its open overhangs the pavement. Maybe the woman in question came along and found a couple of cars with their doors open. A couple of pedestrians came past my car and the door was open -they either stepped around or if they had a pushchair/children/dog i closed it, smiled and said sorry.

I must add that the car in front and behind both had families (not orienteering) and also had doors ajar for some time while kids were lifted and arranged.

I think the whole thing must have got out of hand when people weren't running to get out of her way.

And as far as parking in front of her house -it was a public highway with no parking restrictions so no case there.

[seabird]

we know where this woman lives so buy flowers, chocolates etc and apologise for a poor solution to a parking overflow, and promise to look for a better solution in case it happens again.

Now that would be good PR!

As controller of the event in question, it's perhaps worth letting everyone know that the organiser has indeed been in lengthy and diplomatic discussion with the lady who complained, and although things have not quite moved to the point of flowers and chocolates, apologies have been made and a number of initiatives have developed to manage any parking overflow better next time, including forewarning the local residents that we will be there.

The problem this time was created largely by the event attracting more runners than in recent years, and certainly more than had been anticipated. Perhaps a sign that the sport is beginning to bounce back.

Interestingly on a work day the pavement in question still has vehicles parked on it.

[AndyO]

Thanks, Seabird - you have answered a few questions there, and I'm glad to note that contact has been made with the lady. The point about parking on a public road is still relevant though. There may well be nothing illegal about cars parked there (and Seabird confirms that there area cars there even on a work day)but residents will still feel put out about "strangers" taking over their road. When the "strangers" are there for the same reason - be it orienteering or a big party - there are bound to be people who would rather that they were left alone. It's just human nature, and we should be sensitive to it. Being pro-active by letting people know in advance is a good idea.

[Neil M35]

When I started this thread I hadn’t really intended it to be so focussed on this one incident. (although in hindsight it was inevitable) My question was ‘Are orienteers discourteous, inconsiderate and self-important?’, not do you think this woman was right or wrong about the cars.

Every orienteering event causes disruption to somebody. Dog walkers are disturbed by runners. Motorists are caught up in traffic jams on surprisingly busy country lanes. Walkers heading for a quiet walk along a normally traffic-free private track find they have to keep diving into the verge to avoid oncoming cars. Loudspeakers destroy the tranquillity of the countryside. There are all sorts of things. (Although when I try to think of them the biggest single issue appears to be that we try to take lots of cars to places that don’t normally see a lot of cars).

Some people are happy about the disruption, some aren’t, and some might be completely unreasonable about it. Whichever is the case, the response of both the organisers and individual orienteers has a significant bearing on perceptions of our sport.

In my opinion orienteers can definitely be self-important (perhaps focussed on our sport would be more polite), and this thread has shown fairly conclusively that some orienteers can be discourteous to the point of being abusive. And inconsiderate – well to leave your car door blocking the pavement is fairly inconsiderate, even if it isn’t illegal and you get round to closing it when you’ve finished pulling your pants up.

Oh and I am probably guilty of all these things myself. I'm focussed on my orienteering. What can you do?

[John Morris]

I think we can safely leave EPOC to mend their own fences.

Perhaps the rest of us should be looking forwards, recognising that our impact on those around us spreads far wider than the competition area, and considering how to minimise that impact (in so far as it's negative).

If we share car parks with regular (daily, weekly)or irregular (like ourselves) users perhaps we should make it a practice ALWAYS to put up a few notices, explaining who we are and what we're doing and saying SORRY for any inconveience we may cause. Adding a note to invite comments or complaints to be channelled to a particular person on the day, or a particular address thereafter can be a big help. (I have found that offering someone a complaint form can significantly reduce their wrath...)

A similarly friendly, explanatory, attitude by the car parking officials, coupled with advice on good places to park to avoid the lycra'd weirdos, also helps.

If you are parking close to people's houses, or running a continuous stream of cars down their lane or key access road for two hours, then some advance notice is an essential courtesy. I've apologised to people for parking, and changing (not a pretty sight), outside their houses only to be told: "Oh, that's fine; the organisers put leaflets through our doors last week!"

And we need to think wider than this; at a popular event a couple of years ago, tailbacks out of a difficult parking area blocked a narrow trunk road and, over the next hour or so, caused traffic jams extending for miles in both directions. The Police, whose understanding and co-operation we rely on heavily at times, were not amused.

As a counter to all this, and an example of the benefit of good community relations, consider this:-

At a recent Southdowns Saturday League event, we had permission to use Fittleworth Village Hall for registration, changing and results. We expected the caretaker to turn up at 08:15 to let us in to set up. He didn't - and we didn't know where he lived. As time went by, and the car park got ever fuller, we began to worry. No Hall, no event! A passing lady with dog stopped to exchange a word with a parking official; he explained about the event, and what the problem was. The lady (and dog) walked off, returning a short while later with the key, having taken the trouble to find the caretaker (who'd been waiting at home for us) on our behalf.

When thanked, she said: "Happy to help. That's what living in a village is all about."

People who live in small communities are much more aware of their neighbours than the rest of us. They will gladly help relative strangers; they also expect more consideration from them.