previous knowledge: how much is too much?

[FatBoy]

If I could get really picky I could say that having run Day 1 of JK 04 then I did have advantage on Day 2, much fresher in the mind than the national at High Dam a year previous. In actual fact the point I remember the most at Graythwaite wasn't from the day before or the national on High Dam but from the BOC there in 98(?).

Really we're all saying the same thing - 2 years makes no difference to somebody who really knows an area, and provided courses aren't too similar you can have races 2 days running on an area and the previous day will be no help at all.

[LostOldTimer]

So therefore what you are saying is that someone who really knows an area should declare themselves non-competitive, or be disqualified as they have an unfair advantage as per BOF rules??

And what about the people, who I know, are running on JK 2006 areas now, and will be competitive at the events??

[Gross]

Well if they are running on the terrain once it's been embargoed then they should be DQ'd.... once it's embargoed there is no excuse

[ryeland of doom]

I have messed up badly running on my own maps. Memory varies.

Mind last night prior knowledge of Blackford Hill was cruel. One look at the red circle and "oh no, not there, please!"

[bendover]

i've not run on sutton park now for over 2 years.

i still reckon i know it like the back of my hand.

should i be non comp?

[Klebe]

Agree with Gross, once its embargoed - its embargoed. I changed my dog walks etc on Cannock Chase prior to the JK to make sure I stayed out of the area all together.

Knowledge that gives an advantage is a much harder one to interpret. Does knowing that the mapped 'white' forest is difficult underfoot and the quicker route choices are the longer track runs give somebody an unfair advantage over somebody else who is coming to the area for the first time.

Having said that,one person at last years FCC final (were these areas subject to an embargo?) stated that they barely looked at the map because they trained on the area and knew where the controls would be. - A definate case for declaring yourself non-competitive or the luck of the draw in a final?

[Mrs H.]

I suppose in the grand scheme of things its a case of swings and roundabout but that's not much comfort if someone else's roundabout falls on a really important race day.

So what should Lostoldtimer do if he has evidence that someone is breaking an embargo - what is the correct procedure and has he taken it?

[LostOldTimer]

If a potential competitor trains on an embargoed area, then they should declare themselves non-comptetitive, but they wont. Who would?
What is evidence. just seeing someone out on the area isnt evidence, or is it? How is an infringement reported, and would BOF do anything about it?


Also, Klebe Wrote:
Does knowing that the mapped 'white' forest is difficult underfoot and the quicker route choices are the longer track runs give somebody an unfair advantage over somebody else who is coming to the area for the first time.
of course it should, as you gained an unfair advantage. But most competitors arent going to own up to knowing an area and gaining an advantage or declare themselves non-competitve. Chances are they will say they have no chance of winning anyway, butthat isnt the point. The rules are there, so they should be enforced, or they should all be forgotten. it is another case of BOF and associations and clubs choosing which rules to follow, and which to ignore.
Plus the organising club / Bof would lose even more income from potential competitors being excluded.

[HOCOLITE]

Why don't you report said persons to BOF or the event controller and see what happens. It would be an interesting precedent unless someone knows it's been done before..................

[NeilC]

Why don't you report said persons to BOF or the event controller and see what happens. It would be an interesting precedent unless someone knows it's been done before..................

There are published procedures to follow if you have a grievance with the outcome of an event (which don't involve either BOF or the controller initially). Of course no 'crime' has been committed until the 'suspect' actually attempts to run competitively.

Substantial advantage is of course unquantifiable, so usually interpreted as having mapped or planned on the area in the last two years. Training on an area knowing that it is to be used for a major event beaches rule 1.5.

[LostOldTimer]

Their names will be given to BOF, but I can tell you now that NOTHING will be done about it. They have influence with BOF, they have influence within their own club.
But if it isnt, then they will be named, an very definitely shamed here, publicly.
So I suggest they own up and enter non-competitively or not at all, (but wont BOF lose income then!?)

[NeilC]

Their names will be given to BOF, but I can tell you now that NOTHING will be done about it. They have influence with BOF, they have influence within their own club.
But if it isnt, then they will be named, an very definitely shamed here, publicly.
So I suggest they own up and enter non-competitively or not at all, (but wont BOF lose income then!?)

No BOF won't do anything except advise you to follow the correct procedure which is to complain to the organiser that person X has contravened one of the rules of the competition. If you are then not satifisfied with the organiser's, then jury's and then rules group decision and decide to name names I hope you will also remove your own anonymity

[Kitch]

Oh for nopes sake !

Try noping enjoying yourselves

[bedders]

Thats what I was gonna say, orienteering os for enjoying, someone beats you because they went on the area once about a million years ago, o no! What a disaster! Enjoy your own run, thats what this sport is about people!

[Gross]

Oh for nopes sake !

Try noping enjoying yourselves

Ahhhhh.... Mr K... you miss the point... Lostoldtimer IS enjoying himself in a grumpy old man sort of way.... and I'm sure lots are enjoying trying to work out who Lostoldtimer is.... it would be much easier to name names... but wait a nope... can't we force him / her to reveal this vital information under the Freedom of Information Act????? Or will that reveal that he's really a secret spy from SHUOC trying to get the competition DQ'd to help them on thier merry way.... Or it maybe that he's one of the JK organisers & feels the event will be oversubscribed with entries and it's trying a noping new method of seeding???...... Or maybe he's French & trying to attract people to the sunny dunes in Bordeux...

I say..... lets get Lostoldtimer & AWK in a ring for 12 rounds (of sandwhiches) and get BOF to use the resulting video as promotional material at the Outdoor Show.... that would make the £18 entrance fee (without discount) seem noping good value