Orienteering websites - event listings

[Paul Frost]

It seems that most of what is wanted is already in place, why re-invent the wheel?

The default of form ER1 should be that publicity is ticked. You should have to opt out of publicity (there must be few events that don't want it).

The BOF fixtures database already has all the fixtures. All that is needed is for the web page that displays them (at the moment only showing major events), to have options to display them by class. The default could be major events but with buttons to select all or only local or mixtures or for the next week only. This is a very straightforward select from the database. The information only has to be submited once to one source, this would help reduce errors.

The only problem so far is that the list doesn't take into account where you are, but it should be possible to do at a low cost and quickly.

I admit that the next stage will be more difficult.
The grid ref. is requested in ER1 so that could be used to plot flags on a map. Google local maps may be a possible candidate. I don't have the skills required to know how difficult it would be, but I have seen it used this way. You would then just keep zooming in on the map to get to the area you are interested in.

Google maps example

[PeterG]

http://www.google.com/apis/maps/

[SeanC]

RobL wrote

"You are a software engineer. "

I try not to admit this in public. To prevent the inevitable silence at parties I usually say I'm an ice cream man.

RobL wrote:

"You could knock something like this out in a week or two couldn't you - especially with that recent Java cert. ?"

I have some farely good excuses for doing nothing, apart from encouraging others on Nopesport - and I don't really know much about content management.

Mole Valley have an event list with the distance. I wonder how they do it? Personally I don't think this is the most important thing though, there aren't that many events on any one day and the BOF event list does list the region - but it would be nice. Another thing that would be nice is email alerts about events in your area. I have a couple of friends who have been orienteering once or twice and ask me to tell them about events in their area (not members of clubs yet), I usually forget or don't give them enough notice.

So the software is all out there, it just needs joining up. Sounds like we need someone to analyse the requirements, work out the cost and organise the people with the relevant expertise. I guess someone at BOF has this job, but they might need some help. RobL didn't you used to do this job? You could knock something out in a week or two couldn't you....

[Angry Haggis]

I want a web page where I can enter my postcode and then get a list of my closest C1, C2, C3, C4, C5 event every day for the next 12 months.

The query result page would read:

'You are based in Hove, East Sussex

On Saturday 14 January 2006 your nearest events are:

C1 WOC Day 2 Estonia 2564 miles
C3 SOC Regional 87 miles
C5 SO 15 miles

Attackpoint has exactly this feature, and it's implemented in an attractive way - the only problem is there are few UK events on it. I had added the big ones (the WREs for this year so far) to it. It helpfully enlarges closer events and fades out further ones, and even shows the weather for where I currently am . You need to be a registered user to see the location-based information.

The BOF fixtures database already has all the fixtures. All that is needed is for the web page that displays them (at the moment only showing major events), to have options to display them by class. The default could be major events but with buttons to select all or only local or mixtures or for the next week only.

Lukey has built just such a page - see his article for more details.

This is a very straightforward select from the database. The information only has to be submited once to one source, this would help reduce errors.

The "green" fixtures page displayed on the website is pretty comprehensive but isn't from a database - which is making screen-scraping it rather tricky... The display of the dates is particularly interesting. The other (blue) one is presumably database powered but not comprehensive.

The grid ref. is requested in ER1 so that could be used to plot flags on a map. Google local maps may be a possible candidate. I don't have the skills required to know how difficult it would be, but I have seen it used this way. You would then just keep zooming in on the map to get to the area you are interested in.

I have used the Google API for displaying the (BOF registered) maps in the UK - despite opposition from BOF. My implementation is a little slow at the moment and needs more work - and some AJAX.

[RobL]

Fantastic!

It turns out that I'm only 1187 miles away from an event in Estonia rather than my wild estimate of 2564:

May 7-14 W WC Round 1/EUOC 3 Tartu, Estonia 1187 miles

So, all we need now is an interface between the BOF database and the Attackpoint database?

[Neil M35]

Lukey has built just such a page - see his article for more details.

This I like - not least because I can actually view it at work, unlike the official BOF list which is on a personal free page and therefore restricted. JonX take note.

I have used the Google API for displaying the (BOF registered) maps in the UK - despite opposition from BOF. My implementation is a little slow at the moment and needs more work - and some AJAX.

Potentially useful to be able to search for areas without knowing the grid reference although once you have the GR it is much better to go to Getamap (Ordnance Survey) to see what is really there. Also illustrates the difficulties of poor data quality as it relocates Preston Park (where I played as a lad) from Teesside to the Trossachs.

[redkite]

Like the map site and it could be useful.

Checked out SWOC's maps and it highlight the problem of wrong grid references and incomplete info on BOF site. CArdiff seems to have moved to mid Wales. At least it is not hte mid Atlantic.

[Angry Haggis]

Potentially useful to be able to search for areas without knowing the grid reference although once you have the GR it is much better to go to Getamap (Ordnance Survey) to see what is really there.

Clicking on the icon representing a map in Map of Maps will bring up a speech bubble. If you click the "OS GAM" link in this bubble, it will take you straight to OS Getamap, with the area shown at 1:25000. Clicking on the grid reference link itself will take you to Multimap, with the area shown at 1:50000 (Landranger.) Getamap can be a little slow sometimes, so I prefer the latter.

Also illustrates the difficulties of poor data quality as it relocates Preston Park (where I played as a lad) from Teesside to the Trossachs.

The onus I think is very much on club secretaries to notify BOF of corrections to their mapping information - unless BOF could go through and clean up the obvious errors in the database? I periodically clear my own database and resync it with the BOF one, so if they make the corrections, I'll be able to pick them up.

[SeanC]

I don't think the information in Angry Haggis's map of maps is particularly useful, but I must admit it looks pretty good. This has got me thinking a bit. This is probably not an original comment, but the BOF site is ... how shall I describe it ? .... not terribly exciting. If I search hard enough I can get the information I want, but a newcomer visiting the site isn't given the impression of a young and vibrant sport - apart from the front page maybe. It would be nice if the site of our governing body could have more interesting and dynamic content that would get orienteers and non orienteers returning and talking about it. The sort of content on nopesport and attackpoint, and interesting looking maps, graphics and articles are more likely to promote our sport to newcomers. Applications such as event list management or email alerts can save time and promote the sport. Done properly, could a really good BOF site attract enough new orienteers to pay for itself?

Now to come to the point I want to make I don't think we can expect BOF to do this on its own with the limited funding agreed recently. But judging by postings on this thread there are plenty of people who enjoy web development and might consider volunteering to help BOF develop the site. The combined IT expertise of nopesport readers is no doubt greater than a dozen expensive IT consultants. The controller/planner/organiser system is a framework that encourages individuals to volunteer to be an event official, what's needed is a framework to encourage volunteers to help develop the BOF site - even if it's just giving people a title and a bof email alias (or maybe this exists already but I couldn't find it on the BOF site because my search criteria was too broad). Volunteers would have to tolerate editorial control and disagreements which might take the fun out of it.

Please note, especially RobL, when I use the word volunteers I am not talking about myself.

[SeanC]

G wrote

"sounds good, has been suggested before. the bof webmaster said that he was constrained by the content he could have because the sport is sport England funded or something, and legislation prevents it from being fancy".

This makes sense. Comparing the BOF site with the england hockey site http://www.englandhockey.co.uk and the british canoe union site http://www.bcu.org.uk/ they all have a similar sober look and feel - and the BOF site doesn't seem too bad in comparison to those of these bigger sports. I'm sure there's still scope for volunteers to help improve the BOF site if our webmaster needs the manpower. The england hockey site has a good FAQ section for beginners and the canoe union has a nice picture display on their homepage for example.

[SeanC]

I don't think I explained myself clearly. G, I agree that the other two sites look considerably better, but I assume that the other two organisations have considerably more money to spend on their sites, so in comparison the BOF site isn't too bad. Maybe we've got the website the sport can afford?

[Paul Frost]

I think that the hockey site looks a mess. There is no focus of attention, my eye is wandering around not sure what to kook at.
The BCU site is not working properly in Firefox. I don't know anything about ASP as to what's wrong, and in IE I get an error when I go to the home link.
It has no navigation so difficult to find anything until you click one of the links that are below the fold (and that's on a 1280x1024 screen).

[Dave M]

Hi All. This has been a really interesting thread. I've been working on stuff along these lines with the new Saxons website and I want to extent these ideas with the intent of revamping the SE site later on this year. I've made some use of Google maps on the new Saxons site (check out the Blean event details):

http://www.saxons-oc.org

but I'm sure more could be done with them. In addition, the software architecture I have in place on the Saxons site supports the event details creation and update by anyone with a user login. This won't be up and running for a couple of months but is relatively easy for someone with good php and MySQL skills. I have the currently maintain the SE site myself in a relatively manual way. I reckon it would be good if the clubs could simply add their own event details or at least put a link in to their own site.
I'd really like to hear your input both on the Saxons site and for future developments for the SE site. For reference the SE site now has it's own domain:

http://www.seoa.org.uk

Dave

[Paul Frost]

I have had a look at the the new Saxons site, very smooth.

Thanks to this thread I found out more about Google maps and how to use them. I have added location maps to both the sites I manage:
EckO maps
Southdowns events

I still have a lot to learn (regular expressions to start), but have been surprised how easily you can get started. The following website helped me:
http://www.econym.demon.co.uk/googlemaps2/

[Angry Haggis]

As some of you know, I've been working on my own version of a Google-maps enhanced UK events list, it is finally just about ready for use, and you can find it here.

You'll need to type in the first part of your postcode (e.g. SW1A) and it will then graphically show you the nearest forthcoming events to you. It will probably only work well in modern web browsers (IE6, Firefox, Safari.) It's beta, so may be pulled if nasty bugs surface.