Safety issues with remote finish - suggestions please

[Zokko!]

I am leading the computing team at a forthcoming National Event (early next year) where the finish is sited at leats 30 minutes walk from assembly/download. The safety officer has asked me to investigate ways of confirming the safe return of competitors, more quickly than simply waiting for them to download. I will be using OE2003, so will have the usual missing runners report to refer to. Possibilities include having a radio link (either manned or automatic) to the finish control.

Does anyone have experience of using radio controls for this purpose, and what software might be able to interface with the radio data to quickly sort out who is still "missing"?

There is a chance that an event commentary may be provided, using such a radio link to give real-time results to the assembly area as runners finish. I have wondered if I can somehow piggy-back the safety check on this system.

[Guest]

Ahhhh... the way to make our sport spectator friendly... have a remote finish at a National Event...

[RJ]

Must the download be at assembly? Why not at the finish? Issue splits there. It gives something to think about on the 30 minute walk! Read the start boxes to get starters.

If you want, have another download in assembly for results display production.

Or... at the finish just have a simple computing option to read the start boxes and then one finish box at a time as the event progresses. Use three finish boxes and remove one at a time, say, every thirty minutes. A laptop and battery/inverter should be enough.

[Kitch]

How annoying !

[mharky]

What if it's really bad weather, cold and wet, people won't have the energy to run back to the assembly, and after a 30 minutes walk one could get the sniffles...

[Guest]

I agree wholeheartedly with 'guest' above - remote finishes put a lot of people from even entering for the lack of spectator access. There is no excuse for not having it nearer.
I dont agree with the forthcoming responses of there is insufficient parking available, or that the quality of the courses would be compromised if the finish was elsewhere.
Come on - at these large events - level 3 and above, it is almost essential to have the finish at assembly and good access for non-orienteering spectators and public. No wonder numbers are dwindling. i have been an active orienteer for over 20 years, and have already seen my enthusiasm dwindle, and participation drop at events where the organisation dont seem to 'care'.

[Ed]

OK Guest, I'd guess you'd prefer a 30 minute walk to assembly (and back again afterwards), with assembly perched windily atop an escarpment with 5mm deep soil so there's absolutely no chance of getting a tent to stay upright.

I've no idea where assembly/finish/etc. are planned for the event in question, but I know the area and I'd guess the remote finish is out of necessity and not choice - whatever Guest may infer.

[Supersaint]

As long as there's a clothing transfer from the start to the finish it will be fine.

As for the safety issue, maybe get a couple of young 'uns to race between start and finish with lists of people who've started and get someone to check them back in when they finish. Nothing like a good bit of manual work.

[Politicians]

Nobody has answered this chaps question, just given advice on how his event should be run. Nice one?*!+

[stodge]

My first solution would be trying to make it simple -
Have download at the finish - and get the results back for remote printing at assembly by mobile or wireless or runner / MTB.


If you need to have dowload at the assembly then i'll carry on thinking however one that comes to mind would be a variation on the system used for large fell races - Use Sportident UKs SI Card reader
http://www.sportident.co.uk/solution/sireader/index.html
in conjunction with a radio control on the finish and start boxes in autosend. ( speak to Ian Marsden about getting radio controls). However over that distance you will need beefy radio kit.
Give Martin Stone a ring at Sportident UK who will shed some more light on that process.
http://www.sportident.co.uk/contact_us.html

If you are not very careful about your download tent placement you will always miss people. Even experienced people forget to download when its raining and they have just walked for 30 mins........
I always download at the finish now - even if there is a warm village hall near the car park. Ive spent too much time tracing people in the past.

[kedge]

Finishes a distance from Parking/Assembly are always a difficult problem. I hate them because my arthritis limits me to courses of about 3-4k, which means I can probably cope with the short course for my age group, but if there is a 2.0k walk to & from the parking there is no point in me going to the event at all.

There are times of course when the organisers have no choice in the matter. My club has a regional event in the New Forest in early February. The nearest suitable car parking at that time of the year (it has to be hard standing parking in February) is 1k away from the forest edge. And we also are in the same quandary as Zokko - where do we put download?

I think I'm in agreement with RJ & Stodge here. Download should be as close to the finish as practicable, rather than at car parking for safety reasons, even if it creates organisational difficulties for the organising club.

[SLOWGeek]

Now I would be the first to go for a Radio approach... http://www.radiotiming.dsl.pipex.com/main.htm

But for this problem it seems like an overkill and if there are big hills in the way then getting the signal back will be a challenge...

To determine who has started you need the start control (or check/clear) and to know who has finished you need the finish control. The easiest way to do this is to get the start control (bike it back, when the start has closed) read it with a master unit and laptop using SI Manager, read the finish unit. Export the two lists to Excel and spot the difference. This could be done with a laptop at the Finish or back in the assembly area.

Of course, multiple starts and finishes complicate matters but you can see the principal. If worried about people being out for long then you can repeat the exercise during the day by having an early start, middle start, late start SI unit etc.

What you get is a list of SI numbers for bodies that started but didn't punch the finish. Having the pre-entry list might tell you who they are but you'll need to get the details from registration for the EOD. You will need their age and course to determine how worried to get.

At our recent event we ended up calling two people... one had forgotten to download since they lived around the corner (they did finish so we weren't too worried) and the other lost their SI Card and went home without reporting that they were back.

[Zokko!]

As for the safety issue, maybe get a couple of young 'uns to race between start and finish with lists of people who've started and get someone to check them back in when they finish. Nothing like a good bit of manual work.

This looks like the best idea to me. I am thankful for the other helpful suggestions made, but I think that the transporting of SI units back to download will hardly gain anything over simply waiting for runners to walk back and download as normal. I don't think there is scope for a quicker connection with the finish other than on foot. The thought of trying to get a radio link working is frightening to say the least.

I am not involved in the planning of the courses, but I understand that the area does not allow the start and finish to be any closer to parking or assembly.

Any more ideas gratefully received.

[jonm]

An hour (or whatever) before courses close and when the bulk of the finishers have arrived at the finish start writing down the SI number of people as they finish. (as well as them punching).

30 mins later print a missing runners report in the assembly field and get on the phone to the finish. Simply cross off those individuals you know are walking back and you have an up to date missing runner list.
Repeat at necessary so that you know who and how many people are still out there.