Micro O - Technical

[Guest]

Gavin, have you worked out how you're going to download the SI cards during the race so that people can run the penalty loops.

No download. Just a penalty time added at the end.

Looking forward to the event!

There seems to be some uncertainty of this going ahead now... something to do with not having a suitable map...

[graeme]

It looks to me as though the rules were drawn up to fit the software, rather than vice versa.
I think the number of penalty loops is just the number of wrong controls written out by EMIT...

This would explain why the rules are so daft: Taking only the first punch at each cluster is surely the only sensible rule, but its a bit of a sod to code.

But there will be an event...

Graeme

[Tatty]

Aren't you supposed to be working Paulo?!!

[FatBoy]

It looks to me as though the rules were drawn up to fit the software, rather than vice versa.

That's quite possible, but on the other hand if you don't have a watertight set of rules then you can't program it. If you were to do it the old faishoned way with a punch card then somebody would have to interpret the rules and make a decision with the funny ones - computers are dumb but at least consistent.

[graeme]

That's quite possible, but on the other hand if you don't have a watertight set of rules then you can't program it.

Nope: "The number of penalty loops is given by the output of the following program ..."

If you were to do it the old faishoned way with a punch card then somebody would have to interpret the rules and make a decision with the funny ones - computers are dumb but at least consistent.

Whoa! Just try working out an explanation for which box to pinpunch with the current rules.
e.g. if you punch a wrong control with a pin out of the box, it doesn't count: so no penalty

Graeme

[jonm]

I suspect the only way you will be able to get the information out of SI (given current hardware) is to put all the controls in micro O into 'autosend' mode and have a programme that sorts this out from the data its sent ina real time manner.

This has the advantage the spectators can see whats happening during the micro segment but the downside of lots of cabling or radio links.

Coding for this should not be difficult (given a set of rules), nore displaying the number of loops to the competitor when they punch the final control in the micro O segment.

[SLOW Geek]

I suspect the only way you will be able to get the information out of SI (given current hardware) is to put all the controls in micro O into 'autosend' mode and have a programme that sorts this out from the data its sent ina real time manner.

I believe SI are working on a radio solution. Where each control has a short range radio link. This works well for Micro-O since you link all the controls at a Micro-O control together and then send the result back for display/commentary using a more robust wired or wireless link.

Still a huge amount of complexity and chance for failure because of the race format...

[SLOW Geek]

It appears that Micro-O will be present on the M21L and W21L courses for the OK Nuts Trophy at Esher...

Come and test the software!

see http://www.sloweb.org.uk for details

[Guest]

Hey there SLOW Geek, about the "short range radio SI controls": Siegfried showed me a working model of a control equipped with a bluetooth module June this year. He didn't however state the use for Micr-O, rather the possibility of not having to dig cable-trenches on finish lines or at radio controls so runners don't trip over the cable. The idea being that the bluetooth data goes to a radio control just a few metres away and gets sent long-range from there via the standard Racom hardware.
Cheers from Germany!

[SLOWGeek]

Hey there SLOW Geek, about the "short range radio SI controls": Siegfried showed me a working model of a control equipped with a bluetooth module June this year. He didn't however state the use for Micr-O, rather the possibility of not having to dig cable-trenches on finish lines or at radio controls so runners don't trip over the cable. The idea being that the bluetooth data goes to a radio control just a few metres away and gets sent long-range from there via the standard Racom hardware.
Cheers from Germany!

I take your point about the range for the BlueTooth enabled controls... If it worked with standard mobile phones it would be a nice idea to use just standard Text Messaging...

Also..

Don't get me wrong... I love the RACOM solution but it is expensive... you should check out http://www.radiotiming.com

[PeterG]

I was thinking about the possibility of an SMS based control. You'd need a phone with a serial connector on the bottom and probably java so you could write the software. Unfortunately, that kind of phone is not cheap to buy and, at 10p a text message, a large competition could get rather expensive.

[Guest]

Hi there PeterG and SLOWgeek,

1) I looked at radiotiming.com and think it's an absolutely super project. I certainly will be looking there again to check for news!

2) I have no idea at all which bluetooth data profile SI are planning to use to transmit their data. I presume there is a profile for sending serial data? So maybe you could receive the data in a standardized form?

3) text messages would really get expensive rather quickly. I've heard old Siemens mobiles can be connected to quite easily with standard serial connections, try Google on that? Otherwise, how about you hardware gurus soldering a box that connects to a mobile phone and uses that as a GPRS modem? That would be cheaper, though not much... and don't forget, you haven't always got mobile coverage in the forest where you'd need it for the radio control!

4) I fear we are going slightly off-topic here...

Cheers, Simon

[SLOWGeek]

I was thinking about the possibility of an SMS based control. You'd need a phone with a serial connector on the bottom and probably java so you could write the software. Unfortunately, that kind of phone is not cheap to buy and, at 10p a text message, a large competition could get rather expensive.

You don't need Java. You can use a simple micro-controller... Serial wire to SI control and Serial wire to the mobile phone. There is a protocol of some kind... Nokia AT? that can be used to send the SMS messages. I have seen 4p a message advertised... maybe we can find cheaper weekend deals!

[Guest]

Try getting sponsorship from one of the mobile operators. They can set up their billing engines to charge anything they want.

[mharky]

There was a mobile phone orienteering competition in the summer, i think it was in Hungary(?), sponsored by Nokia. 2 leg relay. 1 person is in assembly with the map and directs the other person where to go over the phone, then they swap when they get back... nokia just gave them all phones for the race