British Ulta-Long Champs

[mharky]

I can name them all except for the British Night Champion...

[Patrick]

(If you think you care, then, without looking it up - who are the current British Champions?)

Without looking it up, from Sprint to Long I'd say Nick B, Oli and Oli. Not so sure abuot the women, but I'd guess at Hev, Hev and Helen W.

Do I win a prize?

So why not have a long-O championships? It is as valid as any other.

Except that the other distances all have world championships. Not that this says much except that Ultra-long isn't likely to generate TV coverage. Likewise Night-O (Jukola and Tiomila are a very different case).

The only way an Ultra-long champs could be taken seriously is to be a UK Cup race. To see this, look at the difference UK Cup status makes for the British Nights. However, if we were to have 5 different British Champs races in the UK Cup there wouldn't be many slots left.

The real question to me is why the British Elite Champs are so poorly attended. Given the rationale for having a separate Elite Champs it surely isn't too hard to guarantee it selection race status, thus ensuring at least a reasonable turnout.

Cheers,

Patrick

[mharky]

Jamie, Jon, Dan, Ewan, Nick, Scott, Matt, Stephen, Ed, Daffyd, Helen and Claire all live abroad. Why would they spend their own money (esp. the ones who don't earn much) going to races which only count for the UK Cup? The do not gain anything from them, other that UK Cup points. Which doesn't send you anywhere. However flying over for a selection race will send you to the European Championships... That is why BEOC only get the best field when it is a selection race.

Look at last year, compare the BEOC Long to BEOC Middle/sprint. The middle and sprint were selection races for the World cup, hence the much better field than the long which was just UK cup and BEOC Long, which to people who are aiming for international honour, doesn't mean enough. Especially when the callendar is so full as well. You can only run so many races... you might as well make them the ones which count...

[mharky]

Anybody spot the ex world champion competiting last Sunday?

Would that be Egil Johansen?

1976, Scotland: Classic Gold, Relay Silver
1978, Norway: Classic Gold, Relay Gold
1979, Finland: Classic silver

That would make him one of the best WOC runners of all time then...

[Guest]

Anybody spot the ex world champion competiting last Sunday?

Would that be Egil Johansen?

1976, Scotland: Classic Gold, Relay Silver
1978, Norway: Classic Gold, Relay Gold
1979, Finland: Classic silver

That would make him one of the best WOC runners of all time then...

Clearly that question was too easy - I also understand he has a 2:16 Marathon time.

Did you also notice the 2 age group World Masters Champions (don't know if they are currently)

[Guest]

And no-one can now test run his winning route in Norway as the last few controls are now a housing estate:)

[Guest]

Jamie, Jon, Dan, Ewan, Nick, Scott, Matt, Stephen, Ed, Daffyd, Helen and Claire all live abroad. Why would they spend their own money.........

Look at last year, compare the BEOC Long to BEOC Middle/sprint......
You can only run so many races... you might as well make them the ones which count...

I know all that, and I wasn't trying to have a go at the people who don't show up. The question I was really asking was why all BEOC races aren't selection races, especially given that BEOC status can be conferred on an event at relatively short notice. As an example, why is next year's BEOC Middle not a selection race? If the answer is because it clashes with Tio, then surely that should also disqualify it from being a British Elite Championship.

Cheers,

Patrick

[mharky]

The selection races for the European Champs is the British (inc. BEOC Long) plus JK, Spring cup and other "all known form". The BEOC middle is only 1 week before the competition, this is far too close, as athletes have to prepare.

BEOC sprint is after the european's so obviously cant be used for selection.

WOC has it's own selection races.

[Patrick]

The selection races for the European Champs is the British (inc. BEOC Long) plus JK, Spring cup and other "all known form". The BEOC middle is only 1 week before the competition, this is far too close, as athletes have to prepare.

BEOC sprint is after the european's so obviously cant be used for selection.

WOC has it's own selection races.

OK, so it seems that selection will be based on 2 long races, one "quite long" (Spring Cup), one middle and no sprints. Fair enough, if that's what people want. But in that case, why not designate JK Day 1 as BEOC Middle since it's the one race you're guaranteed to get people to turn up for? I'll admit the Sprint is more problematic, which is basically down to a dearth of sprint races in the UK.

Sorry if I seem to be labouring this point, but it strikes me as odd that having gone to the trouble a few years ago of introducing a distinct Elite Champs little effort seems to be expended in making it an event the real elite are going to attend.

Cheers,

Patrick

[mharky]

Fair enough, if that's what people want.

That is what was decided by whoever makes those descisions, I'm not entirely sure exactly who is involved in that process, but they are imortant people.

Obviously the selection races are not going to suit everybody, as you say there isn't a Sprint race and people have already voiced their concern about this on nopesport... but top level athletes have to deal with what they are given. We know the selection races, and we our best at those races... so other races become less imporant...

There is no way you could make the JK the BEOC middle as well. the JK is the JK, and the British is the British.

I don't see what is drastically wrong weakened fields at BEOC, don't we just orienteering for fun?

[FatBoy]

There is no way you could make the JK the BEOC middle as well. the JK is the JK, and the British is the British.

One could argue the JK isn't the JK anymore because the JK I know has two classic races on Elite. If you've hacked it about once (which apparently people who still race Elite like) then why not do it again? If you're set on having a full set of British champion titles then perhaps sometimes you have to award titles at other races.

I don't see what is drastically wrong weakened fields at BEOC, don't we just orienteering for fun?

True and yes we do it for fun. The problem you have is BEOC on its own without the very top Elites is more like an informal with a strong field and (hopefully) good courses. BOC without BEOC becomes a normal regional event for MW21L -i.e. a handful of elites turn up and beat the normal top L's and the british champion isn't decided that day. I think Patrick's argument is having gone to the trouble of having a seperate Elite champs for the sake of the quality for the top Elites, then it would be good if the top Elites turned up. You can look at that two ways - get the top Elites to turn up (i.e. make it selection) or bin BEOC and face the fact that the British Champion probably isn't going to be best of British (as already happens at night quite often).

[ratleikur]

Can I suggest another reason for poor turnout at BEOC - namely that qualification for it is based soley on UK cup score. My work commitments make travel to Saturday races near impossible (and courtesy of the unhelpful UK cup organisers it is virtually impossible to run Sunday only),and having an intense dislike of sprint/short races I object to being expected to travel all over the country to run in 2-3km races. I am therefore excluded (including one year when Welsh champion!). At the moment BEOC is the "UK Cup championships" - go back to making qualification based on UK cup and all known form and you might get a few more entrants - after all it's a bit daft to be complaining about turn out while excluding runners ie those who can't/don't want to do the UK Cup

[mharky]

courtesy of the unhelpful UK cup organisers it is virtually impossible to run Sunday only

Where was this then??? Looking at all the UK Cup races since ever, they have all be events you can enter individually, infact I have never heard of a multi day event where you have to run both days... maybe JK Elite, but that is because there is a chasing start...

[Guest]

mharky wrote : maybe JK Elite, but that is because there is a chasing start...

No there isn't !
Start times on Day 2 are simply the reverse of the finishing order on Day 1, but still with a three minute gap between them.
Can't see any reason for not just entering Day 2, other than being the first starter.

[rocky]

haha mharky was wrong! and he should be revising...