Trail-O in Focus

[eye]

the is it a sport question. the does it have to include a physical element to be called a sport question. the does it have one already actually one. the is its inclusive label dependent on its not having a physical element element.

[kedge]

Nemo wrote

I've had a great idea.

Why not drop the 'orienteering' name tag and call it
'Precision Mapreading'

This would avoid confusing it with orienteering, which it isn't.

I thought mharky had settled this argument when he said

Orienteering means navigation.

The sport we do is called orienteering Race, or Orientering Löpning, OL...

Trail-O involves navigation, it uses orienteering maps, controls, control symbols etc and indeed

.'Precision Mapreading'..

Its just another discipline of orienteering, like Ski-O, MTBO, and recognised as such by IOF.

[Nemo]

Have just read Eye's comments.
There is also of course the 'I was wondering what the 'ell 'e meant element'

[Mrs H.]

Well I've enjoyed the debate but I think it's getting a bit small minded now - an exercise in nit-picking in itself! Surely - if Trail O gets selected for the paralympics the question is not:"how will this damage the image of mainstream orienteering?" but "How can we turn this to the advantage of mainstream orienteering?"

There will be a way if we sit down and think about it creatively enough

[Ian W]

I tried to make a constructive suggestion in an earlier post but it didn't really get picked up on. I was serious, so I'll try again.

Trail O was designed for (by?) those who can't participate in a physical sport. As a result it is a suitable activity for some who are confined to a wheelchair. It is an activity which is related to Orienteering and there is no reason why anyone should be surprised that BOF and the IOF support it.

However, both the opponents and proponents of Trail O need to recognize its attractions and its limitations. We need to undestand both what it is and what it isn't.

It most definitely isn't a form of Orienteering which was designed for wheelchair athletes. If one were to devise such a sport, it would surely be something, not dissimilar to MTBO, which combined navigation, route choice and racing. I can't help but feel that such an activity could be very attractive to those who currently race on streets or around tracks.

If we want a form of our sport to be included in the paralympics as a showcase, it surely needs to be something that both emphasises the athletic nature of the sport and contributes to the image of sporting endeavour which is an important aspect of the games. Such a form is clearly possible and would be a very worthwhile development. However, we don't have it at the moment, it isn't Trail O.

Ian.

[mharky]

I didn't see your earlier post, but I thought of the same idea. Wheelchair race orienteering. Finding suitable areas would be very very difficult, but Tjärna Angar would be perfect, I did a nice roller-blade orienteering course there.

Trail-O also provides people who are disabled, but not necesarilly in wheelchairs to get outside and challenge their skill as well...

[Nemo]

I tried to make a constructive suggestion in an earlier post but it didn't really get picked up on. I was serious, so I'll try again.

Trail O was designed for (by?) those who can't participate in a physical sport. As a result it is a suitable activity for some who are confined to a wheelchair. It is an activity which is related to Orienteering and there is no reason why anyone should be surprised that BOF and the IOF support it.

However, both the opponents and proponents of Trail O need to recognize its attractions and its limitations. We need to undestand both what it is and what it isn't.

It most definitely isn't a form of Orienteering which was designed for wheelchair athletes. If one were to devise such a sport, it would surely be something, not dissimilar to MTBO, which combined navigation, route choice and racing. I can't help but feel that such an activity could be very attractive to those who currently race on streets or around tracks.

If we want a form of our sport to be included in the paralympics as a showcase, it surely needs to be something that both emphasises the athletic nature of the sport and contributes to the image of sporting endeavour which is an important aspect of the games. Such a form is clearly possible and would be a very worthwhile development. However, we don't have it at the moment, it isn't Trail O.

Ian.

I refer you to my first posting (bottom of page 1).

At the 1996 World Wheelchair Games at Stoke Mandeville Hospital, 12 or more games competitors put their names down in response to a promotional orienteering event poster. No games competitors turned out when they found out what Trail O involved.
We were trying to promote entirely the wrong 'sport' at that venue. We missed a golden opportunity to promote real wheelchair orienteering.
I agree with Ian, on a world, potentially televised, stage we must promote 'real' disabled orienteering, just as every other paralymic sport promotes a 'real' version of their sport. Do we what to be a laughing stock?

[FatBoy]

I've kept quiet for a while so I'll add another 2p.

Trail-O will never do it for me but I take nothing away from anybody who does it and enjoys it. To say whether it is orienteering or not would depend entirely on how you define orienteering, and I would say is a fairly pointless exercise.

A good friend of mine is in a wheelchair - his main hobbies are flying and skiing. He might be interested in doing orienteering which involved the physical side of things, particularly if it was something like this:



However Trail O probably has as much appeal as a crossword. Again taking nothing away from those who enjoy it. If somebody can't orienteer any more because of injury/onset of time and they enjoy Trail O then fine, but I don't see it appealing to the initial target audience of disabled sports people.

[distracted]

surely some sort of urban sprint race terrain would be good for a wheelchair based O course? as long as there aren't any steps...

and I'm sure there would be plenty of suitable areas around the 2012 paralympics

[Nemo]

One of trail O's problems, if it is to be a serious 'sport', is its inherent intellectual limitations.

There is only one right answer at each viewpoint, which, by logical deduction, is capable of solution. You have a large amount of time to find that solution. To be fair, the conundrum must have a clear, unequivocal answer. With enough training and practice one might reasonably suppose that the best competitors will always get the right answer, and if they don't, the solution is probably going to be ambiguous, or they will have reasonably misinterpreted a deliberately equivocal question set by the planner to trick ever-more-expert competitors into giving the wrong answer. It will become more and more a contest between planner and competitor, where the planner becomes ever-more-devious in tricking competitors into giving the wrong answers.

Where is the scope for talent and creativity such as the imaginative route choices and prodigious feats of concentration that a World Championship Classic Race winner would display?

Sorry, as a 'sport', or even an intellectual activity, if trail O and foot O were musical instruments, trail O would be a dustbin lid compared to a Steinway Concert Grand.

[gross2007]

What is Nemo's problem??? If he doesn't rate Trail O he can just ignore it & let those who do enjoy it carry on!

[Nemo]

What is Nemo's problem??? If he doesn't rate Trail O he can just ignore it & let those who do enjoy it carry on!

I'm more than happy for people who enjoy doing trail O to continue doing so.

I might even plan another event myself!

It's the claims for parity with the other O disciplines that I think are misplaced.

[kedge]

Sigh

[mharky]

This thread is getting quite close to be locked...

[Adventure Racer]

In no other discipline of orienteering (or in any sport that I can think of) can fit and able elite competitors, their children, their parents, their grandparents, their paraplegic cousin and their arthritic aunt take part on the same terms in the same competition with map and compass.

Chess? Unless you're stipulating map and compass for your other sport, in which case you do somewhat limit the field.

Trail-O involves navigation, it uses orienteering maps, controls, control symbols etc and indeed

I think the point has also already been made that there is more to navigation than just map interpretation. Other elements such as route choice do not form a competitive part of Trail-O.

Trail-O seems a perfectly reasonable sport to me, and one that should be encouraged as an addition at orienteering events. However it isn't orienteering racing (to reinterpret Mharky's post) which we do, but something totally different. I think the fact the the vast majority (all?) Trail-O competitors are ex orienteering racing competitors speaks for itself, as I find it very hard to imagine how you would market such an activity to somebody who isn't.