MICRO O in WOC 2006 for Middle

[ifititches]

Peter G, I was planning to abandon the penalty loops idea in micro-score O. The penalty comes from points deducted from visiting the wrong micro O control Competitors wouldn't know they'd done that until the end, but the amazing technology would have told the spectators that they had.

Actually, all control descriptions for all of the controls would have to lack codes for that to work, or people would know when they'd got near a micro o site.

Another problem would be that ties for top places might be more common than they are now.....

Great shame it's obviously not a runner really; it was a lot of fun at Lilleshall, and the concept is certainly useful as a training tool (local juniors beware!)

[Stodgetta]

If there were software to handle it

Apparently emit does handle micro-o, SI doesn't (yet)

[FatBoy]

The upperhand given by Emit as my understanding (little of Emit and much of SI) gives me is that you can read the Emit card more quickly hence a simple "punch" at the end of the MicrO section is enough. With SI with the current hardware you'd have to basically download the whole card, and while the newer USB master stations read much faster than the old serial ones you're just not going to want to wait for a download mid-course.

While one could write software to get SI current hardware to do MicrO I suspect we'll have to see if there's new hardware brought out in response to MicrO being included at WOC.

I do suspect that the software used at NOC wasn't written by Emit themselves so probably could be ported to use SI. That's just a guess though.

[GML]

ifititches - if you make it map memory score (no control codes or descriptions, but competitors free to return to the start to take another look at the map as often as they like) then the false controls (i.e. the ones not on the map) don't actually have to be very close to the real ones - just on a similar feature far enough away that someone who is navigating reasonably accurately (remembering that they are doing this from memory) will find the right one, whereas those who are simply running around looking for controls will get caught out. I organised a Boxing Day event on this basis a few years ago. Great success. Quite a lot of runners mis-punched at at least one of the false controls. (PeterG was there if I recall correctly).

[gross2006]

While one could write software to get SI current hardware to do MicrO I suspect we'll have to see if there's new hardware brought out in response to MicrO being included at WOC.
.

WOC2006 is using SI so new stuff will be needed. WOC2007 haven't decided between SI or EMIT yet

[FatBoy]

Oh dear oh dear. Looks like the horse bolted before they locked the stable door.

This is why I get frustrated with the IT business - management make decisions without your opinion then expect you to deliver

Then I find the same thing happens in Orienteering

[Goes to start writing MicrO penalty count routines]

[ifititches]

GML,(person after my own heart !)that sounds even more spectator friendly, but to be pc it has to be score O with "terrain visualisation", rather than map memory..

Now understand the map changeover in middle distance micro-O (? "middle with a twiddle" might be a better name) but still think that 's going to limit even further the areas that would be suitable. Also think t current middle stands as very valuable discipline in its own right.

If every man women and child in Norway tuned in to watch middle micro it would only make an audience of ? 4.5 to 5 million, this does seem to be a poor argument for watching people run penalty laps before the final 5 mins of their run.

But I wasn't entirely joking about the micro score O. Score increases the chances of orienteering being seen as a sociable activity, because everyone finishes around the same time and can get on with having fun.And micro O can add tothe experience (talking everyday competition here) Depending how you set it up it can be much more challenging than many score events are currently. If it ever got taken up as a World Champs event I think it has more potential for being TV friendly than what's currently suggested too.

[Toni]

I'd love to see a poll of all the athletes who competed in the middle distance at the Nordics because I thought the athletes were very positive about it and really enjoyed the discipline. It didn't feel too disimilar from a normal middle distance race and just added something extra for a few controls in the middle. Maybe I read it incorrectly. I am amazed that so many nopesporters are against the idea but I'm not sure that the people who will actually be competing in WOC are. For me it just appeals to me so much more!

[Guest]

Quote:
I was waiting official publication, both in WOC 2006 and IOF web-pages, about this sad news for our sport (introducing micro-o in WOC 2006) to do same letter as You did.
Really, I can't believe this very fast and confidential decision.

Sprint race were already done for Media. Now, every 4 years, we will change rules of our sport?!
I can't understand why we will destroy the most exciting event in the world: the middle distance! (ok, I am may be not impartial...).

I have been following NOC micro-o on TV. I was just looking nice pictures from forest. But then when I saw the map from micro-o, I asked myself: Are we getting crazy?! It was impossible for me to adjust map and pictures. We have to remember that any map are perfect (ex: WOC 2005 map were good but not perfect with bamboo representation).

Very soon, top orienteers will only enjoy training, not competition (that's was my case in 2002 World cup).

I really hope that IOF will take different decision about introducing micro-o in WOC.

Best regards,
Thierry GUEORGIOU

Doesn't that sum it up? The bloke who everyone thinks of as the current orienteering god? The man who has three times in succession shown that when it comes to undertaking the best technical orienteering he is "The Master". Basically he thinks that it is a pile of crap.

Now who do you believe, who is more in touch with the world's best? David May, the man from the IOF foot committee who has actively promoted this variation of the sport with no supporting evidence (i.e during IOF Advisors Clinc July 8th - 10th Portugal)or Tero? Who is more in touch with the world's elite? Surely a total no brainer?

Sorry Toni at the momemt you are a voice in the wilderness!

[BJesus]

You do realise that Tero did not run the micro-o at the Nordic Champs or Norwegian Spring, dont you??

im not saying that his comments would be any different, but i do agree with Toni, stop mocking it until you try it. Then you all have a much better understanding of how it works, and can make a valid personal choice, as to whether it will help our sport in the long run or is a pile of crap.

why not ask some of you other so called orienteering masters, emil, pasi, jani, jorgen, andrej, chris etc etc etc and find out these opinions. I do believe that this argument is not as one sided as this discussion leads everyone to believe.

When you actually running the course, i dont think it is such a huge difference. You still have 85% of a normal middle distance to run. And yes the best orienteers will still win. Look at Nordberg at Nordics, the guy was by far the best there, winning the long, relay and micro-o, he was also one of the only guys to get all the controls right during the micro-o. It didnt seem to slow him down much.

As for course setting, i think the biggest hurdle is the software problems, as for setting the courses, that should be simple, the map needs a little bit more work at a 1:5000 scale, but then you only have to put 1 control at each site in the right spot;) the rest can be hung anywhere around it!!!

The decision has been made to include it, for right or wrong reasons. Orienteering now needs everybody behind it, to try and make this new venture work. Without all of us being positive about the extra TV coverage, new challenges etc etc, how on earth does it even have a chance to succedd????

[Guest]

stop mocking it until you try it

That is pretty much one of the major arguments against Micro-O in WOC 2006: the vast majority haven't had a chance to try it. How can it be fair to include that in WOC. In practice it means the norwegians have a head start over everyone else.

[housewife]

Toni is absolutely spot on. I think me BJ and her are the few people on this post actually in favour of micro o, and funnily enough we are the few people on this post that have actually tried it. Personally I couldn't give a monkeys about the reasons behind why we are having it at woc, but i am excited because it is such an exciting, technically challenging thoroughly interesting type of orienteering. So good!

[gross2006]

stop mocking it until you try it

That is pretty much one of the major arguments against Micro-O in WOC 2006: the vast majority haven't had a chance to try it. How can it be fair to include that in WOC. In practice it means the norwegians have a head start over everyone else.

Norwegies also started orienteering long before everyone else:) doesn't mean orienteering should have a WOC.

I don't know much about Micro-O but from speaking with some athletes no great complaints.... and lots of complaints from others:)

I suspect GB elite sportsmen will get enough practise in micro before Denmark next year.

Same complaints came about with the Sprint - how many sprints in GB before Tampere?? Who's moaning now that it's a non sport since it's produced 2 WOC medals for GB.

[TommyC]

I think the IOF is misguided in trying to pander to the TV companies in this way. People tune in to watch cycling races, downhill skiing, etc., but these are surely no more TV friendly than an orienteering race.

We should focus on getting well-thought out and well-produced footage of existing formats, and have confidence that that will work out. I don't honestly see what is to be gained in terms of excitement by essentially watching people run in circles for a while. (They could just put a camera on me at pretty much any control - I run in circles all the damn time)

[Guest]

The decision has been made to include it, for right or wrong reasons. Orienteering now needs everybody behind it, to try and make this new venture work. Without all of us being positive about the extra TV coverage, new challenges etc etc, how on earth does it even have a chance to succedd????

No, "orienteering" does not need everybody to get behind it. There are plenty of things that orienteering does need, but there is no evidence to suggest that this is one of them.

That doesn't mean Micro-O shouldn't be included: frankly I'm not that bothered one way or the other, as long as it's inclusion in WOC is supported by those who compete at that level.

Whether I'd want to do it or not, is a different matter. It doesn't appeal, as it doesn't represent orienteering as I want to take part in, and I don't see any point in promoting it, as it's very unlikely to be available to those interested.