Targetting orienteering advertising?

[Blanka]

So that I don't post off-topic in the Micro-O thread, where Mrs.H Posted the comment below...

In return orienteering addresses a lot of problems facing modern families in a reasonably cheap and enjoyable way and is marvellously inclusive as nopesport demonstrates on a daily basis.

Well, entry fees are probably relatively cheap compared to other sports, but you have to take into account travel and equipment (once you get beyond the recreational 'run in some old trainers and a pair of tracksters' you do end up needing to spend some money on equipment), accommodation for distant events. This is possibly why school O initiatives sometimes end up with a poor uptake for the clubs involved: even if kids enjoy the sport, they will not be able to do it without the support of their parents - they need someone to take them to events, pay for all their equipment, support them once they get to the selection race level etc. etc.

Maybe this is why it's not quite as simple with inclusivity of orienteering. If you look around yourself, most orienteers tend to be professionals with relatively well-paid jobs (I'm not saying all - I'm sure there are exceptions).

Now I get into shaky ground: how about we make use of this bit of knowledge and go for a bit of targetted advertising?

1) Rather than putting all of the development effort into schools, how about moving some of it to Universities and University O clubs? For example try i) developing links with local clubs for training/transport/co-organisation of events purposes, especially in Unis with no established orienteering clubs, ii) helping with grant money to fund training tours/minibus hires etc. at student level rather than just at junior level.
The important point being trying to set up more Uni O clubs (perhaps with the help of local open club members).


2) Advertise local events (from CC and Badge events to any larger events that may be in the area, eg. the JK) on sports noticeboards of engineering/science/other companies where you expect a higher concentration of such professionals?

Some might say that in this way we'd be discriminating against others, making the sport more exclusive, but I'm not saying we should stop all other initiatives aimed at everyone across the board (such as school orienteering initiatives). I'm just saying we should try and make use of our knowledge of the average orienteer and see if we can attract more people from the same target group.

Any thoughts?

[Guest]

So that I don't post off-topic in the Micro-O thread, where Mrs.H Posted the comment below...

Well, entry fees are probably relatively cheap compared to other sports, but you have to take into account travel and equipment (once you get beyond the recreational 'run in some old trainers and a pair of tracksters' you do end up needing to spend some money on equipment), accommodation for distant events. This is possibly why school O initiatives sometimes end up with a poor uptake for the clubs involved: even if kids enjoy the sport, they will not be able to do it without the support of their parents - they need someone to take them to events, pay for all their equipment, support them once they get to the selection race level etc. etc.

This may be the case but I believe you'll find that compared to most non curricula sports or mainstream sports th out lay is still cheap. When we've been to bursary presentations it's apparent that our outlay is much less than canoeing, skiing, sailing, golf, fencing etc.

Maybe this is why it's not quite as simple with inclusivity of orienteering. If you look around yourself, most orienteers tend to be professionals with relatively well-paid jobs (I'm not saying all - I'm sure there are exceptions).

Now I get into shaky ground: how about we make use of this bit of knowledge and go for a bit of targetted advertising?

1) Rather than putting all of the development effort into schools, how about moving some of it to Universities and University O clubs? For example try i) developing links with local clubs for training/transport/co-organisation of events purposes, especially in Unis with no established orienteering clubs, ii) helping with grant money to fund training tours/minibus hires etc. at student level rather than just at junior level.
The important point being trying to set up more Uni O clubs (perhaps with the help of local open club members).

BSOA have tried Teacher training colleges and have not had much luck, often the problem is getting the right contact.

With Unis I think our existing clubs and mainstream orienteers moving on to uni don't help this. In general they opt for one of the 'big 2', probably in the belief that they will get better O and better training. I can't comment on the latter but the chances of competing at BUSA are not high at these clubs even for ex Start squad freshers. There may be better transport to events I dont really know. I think the pioneering work done by GG at Warwick is great for the sport but the club may decline when he moves on(just like schools when the teacher moves on). We can hope that OD can keep the impetus going.
There are a few uni clubs that manage to 'plod along' in division 2. BUOC being one. But we've lost Newcastle and I think Leeds might be in moth balls.

Perhaps pressure needs to put on BUSA to give more points in the competition which might encourage clubs. Maybe this should come from the big 2.

It's much easy to introduce O from within when their is a thriving club as students are attracted by the vitality and banter of other students not outsiders trying to tempt them. They may like outside support from the local club, but they don't want the local club as the driving force.

2) Advertise local events (from CC and Badge events to any larger events that may be in the area, eg. the JK) on sports noticeboards of engineering/science/other companies where you expect a higher concentration of such professionals?

Why not create business leagues with a competition like the UK cup, offering more points for newcomers than existing O'ers to encourage companies to spread the image. This is more likely to work in big organisations but there are interco sports comps in accountancy and there is divisional sport in the civil service. Again the drive needs to come from within. The organisations will like the glory

Hocolite

Some might say that in this way we'd be discriminating against others, making the sport more exclusive, but I'm not saying we should stop all other initiatives aimed at everyone across the board (such as school orienteering initiatives). I'm just saying we should try and make use of our knowledge of the average orienteer and see if we can attract more people from the same target group.

Any thoughts?

[Pingu]

our outlay is much less than canoeing

Damn Straight.

[FatBoy]

Canoeing is expensive -new boat required

If you're talking canoe slalom then distances to events are normally much further as well - there are much fewer venues and much fewer races. I went to Selkirk (250 miles each way) last weekend.

Let's not get started about skiing costs

As for targeted advertising - sounds sensible not discriminatory. Business types would call it something like target market segments. Bascially you sell the same thing different ways depending on your target audience.

My experiences of orienteering at Uni outside of the big 2 aren't so much the problem getting keen people to go orienteering but actually getting around the university red tape. When you had to hand in an insurance form on the Friday for who was going on the trip on Sunday it kind of killed off any chance of increasing numbers. Your average students don't like being tied down to whether they are going or not when they don't know what kind of hangover they're going to have.

I think the business competition has potential, but you need to make it look more corporate at events - a few sponsors logos around and you'll soon get other companies interested.

[Guest]

Now I get into shaky ground: how about we make use of this bit of knowledge and go for a bit of targetted advertising?

Err! I thought that was exactly what I was doing!

[Nails]

In general they opt for one of the 'big 2', probably in the belief that they will get better O and better training.

No not belief...FACT. Surely it's obvious to anyone that the 'Big' 2 have lots of people and therefore lots going on. Yer good job by GG in Warwick, but i only want to plan/hang training every 10 weeks not every 3. If you plan/hang a training you never get as much out of it as if someone else from your 'Big' club had done it!

Furthermore the number of active apres-uni or 'adult' orinteers in the 'Big 2' show that it is FACT that they will get better O and better training!

[Mrs H.]

Sorry that was me. I have just despatched an e-mail regarding MADO to one of our town's largest employers (all shamelessly scientific based white collar) as part of my initiative to get whole families involved I have been merciless appealing to their insecurities.

*edit shall sort this attachment out later.

[Guest]

In general they opt for one of the 'big 2', probably in the belief that they will get better O and better training.

No not belief...FACT. Surely it's obvious to anyone that the 'Big' 2 have lots of people and therefore lots going on. Yer good job by GG in Warwick, but i only want to plan/hang training every 10 weeks not every 3. If you plan/hang a training you never get as much out of it as if someone else from your 'Big' club had done it!

Furthermore the number of active apres-uni or 'adult' orinteers in the 'Big 2' show that it is FACT that they will get better O and better training!

This is part of the point
1. Students want activity
2. The attitude in the Big 2 from the elite is self centred.(It may be necessary to be self centred to get to the very top), but it doesn't help spread the gospel, in fact it puts some orienteers off when they go to the big 2. Yes I know at least 2 who went to SHUOC and dropped from the O scene cos it was too elitist. New blood needs cajouling not pushing to one side.

[mr chris]

Was just about to write something very similar guest!
Yes the big 2 have a great orienteering scene, i'm sure i would have enjoyed it immensely. however i think that i would not have got to BUSA with either. therefore i chose a university that has a thriving scene (the legendary alc-O has already been mentioned) but with which i would very likely get a chance at BUSA. Just a note, I have run for England this year at Interland, but i still rank below at least 15, prob nearer 25 people at either of the big 2 at my peak.
Going back to the original link however, the university i preferred most was Bath. the course was ideal, but the uni has no orienteering club. as a very sporty uni i'm sure i would have been able to set one up. but this involves many difficulties and much jumping through hoops. My sister went to a uni with no orienteering club, and now does virtually no orienteering at uni, preferring other sports instead. She wanted to go to BUSA but couldn't as her uni does not have an orienteering club. she couldn't set up a uni club without at least (i think) 20 people (uni rules). try finding 20 people in a small uni who want to orienteer, let alone invest a lot of time making committees etc, not to mention all the risk assessments and paperwork that have been mentioned!! therefore i decided i couldn't risk having no orienteering and opted for a club with a well run club. (As well as the best education around, even if it can't offer me a year abroad like Bath)!!

[Mr. Furness]

i suppose its never gonna happen but can we have the names of those two people?

naturally there is the need to have the elite side- we want to win and be the best uni team. but there are always various trainings (often put on by the elite's) where people of all abilities are invited and welcome, with some form of coaching often on offer.

i think the point is that going to sheffield there is more in the way of training partners. if you are good and want to get better, you will have every chance of doing so. if people go because they want the elites to make them better, then thats a poor choice, its not how it works.

however there are also lots of orienteers in sheffield who aren't elite but are very active members of the club. even more prominantly, we have had quite a few people who only started when they joined uni, and became important members. if we are so elitist, how did we manage that?

[Mr. Furness]

>>mr chris
did you talk to anyone who knows about busa? it doesn't matter how good you are, everyone in the club can go.

[Nails]

Mr F well backed up. Guest is talking crap. They probably know some lardrsed drinker who, went to uni and drank too much beer, said sod it with work, i'm gonna spend all day in bed or watching daytime tv. Orienteering -phah thats too much like hard work, i'm not doing that anymore.

Furthermore...guestly crap talker... since yours truly is coach at SHUOC i can assure you our trainings are designed with anyone in mind. From total beginner to Top Elite to knackered old W50 if she wants to take part!

And Furthermore...most of the top elite in sheffield have been know to help/shadow/give tips/tricks to complete novices! For a start i wouldn't be where i am in orienteering today without the 'Self-Centred' Elite you find in Sheffield!

SO take that back...that got me miffed.

[Nails]

>>mr chris
did you talk to anyone who knows about busa? it doesn't matter how good you are, everyone in the club can go.

And also anyone at any university can go to BUSA orienteering, wether there uni has a club or not!

[Guest]

to knackered old W50 if she wants to take part!

Is he having a go at me again? I'm not guest as any mod will be able to confirm! I'm a free marketeer and my son wants to go to Sheffield.

ps Brooner/Rocky will I'm sure scale down that embarrassingly large flier which they put up for me

[Mrs H.]

to knackered old W50 if she wants to take part!

Is he having a go at me again? I'm not guest as any mod will be able to confirm! I'm a free marketeer and my son wants to go to Sheffield.

ps Brooner/Rocky will I'm sure scale down that embarrassingly large flier which they put up for me

Whoops - but that guest was me, ha ha ha - bloody computers!