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[FatBoy]

There's 2 camps of orienteers really. Camp A are orienteers and nothing else. Camp B are outdoor enthusiasts - people who enjoy the combination of technique and physical in beautiful scenery.

In adventure racing there's only one camp - camp B, by very definition. Therefore anyone who's an adventure racer would enjoy orienteering. They won't do it 52 weeks a year like Camp A but they'd be up for it.

This works the opposite for me. I'm interested in giving adventure racing a go because I'm in camp B. Doesn't mean I'm going to do it 52 weeks a year either.

In summary I'm saying there's no problem advertising adventure racing on nope. The people it will appeal to will have already thought of it anyway. Also we should be advertising to adventure racers, and one of the best ways of doing this is turning up at their events and beating them

[Ed]

I guess the next figures to show the reduction in 20-40 year olds in the sport will be put down to nopesport allowing advertisements from adventure race events.

You've already mentioned that at the Rat Race you will be advertising orienteering in it's own right, which agreed is a good thing. And, also like you have now admitted, advertising adventure races to orienteers may not be so much of a good thing, so is it time now to start thinking about the impact such adverts are having, and acting upon it?

I guess if nopesport adverts are so effective they should maybe be a bit more ambitious - how about some adverts for world peace and poverty reduction, get the G8 leaders to take one quick look and bob is your dodgy irish uncle

[brooner]

But back to the subject... I noticed the BOF stand at the Rat Race on Saturday whilst registering. Please don't take this the wrong way if anyone reading this was involved in putting it together/manning it, but it lacked a certain amount of perzaz.

We went over and my team talked briefly to the very pleasant lady manning it at the time (from BOK I presume). But when you compared the BOF stand to the other stalls around, it was just some examples of maps and a bored looking (sorry) lady in green o-bums.

I think it was just a BOK stand rather than BOF, like i said in a previous post there was talk of BOF actually getting involved and doing a stall but I don't think its happened. In Edinburgh it'll probably be ESOC doing a stand but I'm hoping to get some EUOC folk down to show a more youthful face (no offense ESOC! maybe some INT member's will pop down too?)

The orienteering itself on the Sunday was fun I thought. We had two controls actually under bridges in a stream - one was knee deep for a little person like me! But I think it gave a favourable impression to the competitors of O in general, and certainly wasn't a boring walk in the woods.

there were a fair few folk who weren't impressed with getting their feet wet once again, bunch of wimps!

how was the cave-o btw? I thought that looked like fun.

[P2B]

The cave o rocked (ha ha).

Coming straight of the kayaks into the dark, I hadn't looked at the scale of the map which was huge and got thoroughly confused, luckily Mr P2B clocked it straight away and found all the controls without the map! I just followed his whistles like a dog!

Was blinking freezing in there too when you're wet.

Would have liked to spend longer in there though. We were in and out like a shot - I think some other teams took a little longer...

[Adventure Racer]

I'm an orienteer, or so I claimed recently on the Sleepmonsters forum. However if it hadn't been for adventure racing, I may have never become one, as it's something I took up as training for AR. Strangely enough, as the main aim initially was to improve my night navigation, my first few events were all night score events, and I owned a Silva headtorch before I ever took part in a normal linear daytime O event! Nowadays, whilst I'm never going to be an elite orienteer (and some people seem to think my lack of a national ranking means I'm not a real one), I do really look forward to the winter orienteering season, and I can envisage a time when I am still orienteering but no longer adventure racing, so AR has gained at least one participant to your sport.

I do also try to encourage other adventure racers to try out orienteering in order to improve their navigation, as whilst most AR idoes use OS type maps, orienteering skills really do help there too. In fact to some extent the sense of direction and position you get from O actually helps the most when the maps are really bad, as I have sometimes experienced in foreign races. People who are looking to compete successfully in AR must surely look at those of us who are currently amongst the best navigators, and notice that we all have in common some sort of orienteering background, and be encoraged to try out orienteering too. I think the link between the two sports can only be good for orienteering (noting the other thread here about lthe problem with recruiting 20-30 year olds, which is exactly the core AR age group).

[Guest]

Well said CMS. I nearly refered to you in a thread but never completed the posting. I think you play down your talents. Your O skills have improved and you can put pressure on some pretty highly rated Orienteers when fully fit. I doubt if many Orienteers could match you at Canoeing in the same timescale, a few might mamage the biking though


Hocolite

[FatBoy]

I doubt if many Orienteers could match you at Canoeing in the same timescale

<- I'll give it a go!

[Guest]

I doubt if many Orienteers could match you at Canoeing in the same timescale

<- I'll give it a go!

How long have you been canoeing? I suspect more than a couple of years, if so you don't count

[FatBoy]

OK I don't count.

[SeanC]

I agree with the comments about adventure racers... Two or three adventure racers have started coming to our local events, apparently with the aim of improving their navigation for adventure racing. They started on the difficult course (Green/Blue standard) and were quite happy taking 2 hours. I guess 2 hours orienteering, including spending some time scratching your head, doesn't worry the average adventure racer?

To be provocative..... Does the sport provide what the adventure racers are looking for? eg. do most clubs provide a realistic way for an adult to learn the finer skills of orienteering beyond learning from their own mistakes?

[gross2006]

Does the sport provide what the adventure racers are looking for?

Absolutue dogs bollocks.... why should orienteering be a training sport for adventure racing:) Orienteering is orienteering not f**king adventure racing. Soon well carry kayaks on our backs instead of compasses (see BOF Guideline X.2.4)

[FatBoy]

The lines blur at some points. What is MTBO? Orienteering or adventure racing? What is a trailquest? If one were to organise a kayak orienteering race using proper orienteering maps is that orienteering or adventure racing?

Flip it round then. Is running around York city centre with a map orienteering? You could argue it is (I would) and you could argue it's not proper orienteering in the same way adventure racing isn't proper orienteering.

What about fell running where the route is via a map not a taped route?

I'd leave it for people like insurance companies to define where something falls under BOF, TCA, FRA or whatever. I prefer to say all these things are orienteering related and the boundaries are blurred.

[Ed]

how about rephrasing the question to keep gross happy:

what is needed to attract more adventure racers to mainstream orienteering events and to keep them coming?

[Guest]

do most clubs provide a realistic way for an adult to learn the finer skills of orienteering beyond learning from their own mistakes?

Sean,

Why is this more important for adventure racers than those that only orienteer?
Hopefully most O clubs should do this anyway !

Mark

[Adventure Racer]

Ignoring the rather unneccessary bad language, I don't think anybody is suggesting that orienteering should be a training sport for adventure racing, just that many adventure racers who might not otherwise have tried it might see it that way - and what exactly is wrong with that if it is bringing new people into the sport? If orienteering can cater to the needs of these people, and be enjoyable for them, they may take it up as a sport in its own right, just as I have, and you've just recruited another new participant - more than likely in that crucial 20-30 age range where orienteering is short of numbers. I really am struggling to understand why anybody thinks this is a problem - I can only imagine there is some sort of elitist attitude here that if you're not a full time orienteer then orienteering doesn't need you, which is kind of strange as that is far from the attitude I have encountered actually taking part in orienteering as opposed to on this forum.

As to what orienteering can do for adult newcomers - well I have to say as one myself a few years ago, it is kind of intimidating turning up to your first event, and not knowing what to do in the start boxes for instance. I remember being called back from going to the master maps when I was only supposed to be stepping into the first box (that and the question of what I was doing on the brown course when I hadn't a clue - well not having done O before doesn't mean you can't nav, as I proved with a top half finish!) I suppose the answer here is just to provide some sort of FAQ for newcomers - though I guess a colour coded (district? I still don't quite keep up with O terminology), is maybe not quite the right placce for this, and I know my club certainly provides support at our smaller scale events, which is what I encouirage newcomers to go to.