Harvester

[FatBoy]

North/South wise Pillar Woods is pretty midlands isn't it? Were not talking Penhale or Lossie.

Timing - I'd prefer the Harvester earlier so nettle growth is lower and there's more night legs. This may mean you get less people wanting to do it but is more with the spirit. As I finished leg 2 on the B this year dawn was on it's way and we were leading at that point! (although n/c).

As I posted somewhere else we've got two ways of getting more teams. Allow scratch teams (and be competitive) or merge into bigger clubs. Our team at the Harvester had it's last 2 places filled by WCH runners - even one the biggest clubs failed to get a team out. The other problem is also for people who can't get in a club's team. If I didn't just run for SPLOT the most local club to here for training nights is SYO but looking at their A team I wouldn't get in it so I still wouldn't get a run!

[RJ]

........This may mean you get less people wanting to do it but is more with the spirit.

As I posted somewhere else we've got two ways of getting more teams. Allow scratch teams (and be competitive) or merge into bigger clubs.

If we are not careful we will reduce the event to an effectively 'closed' event like BUSA relays, with just a few active clubs providing the teams, and the trophy oscillating between a couple of them. 274 competitors is not good enough, that is non-sustainable in the long term.

I don't think that advertising and promotion on its own will save the event and, in the end, the sport. We are facing real problems with numbers... we need to find a way to at least double participation at this event over the coming years. We must show a significant growth year on year.

[SeanC]

I think part of the problem with the Harvester is that it appeals most to the 20-40 age group, which is where orienteering is loosing it's numbers fast.

However, isn't it the sort of event that would appeal to the adventure racing fraternity? How about a red course / trail-o class aimed at less experienced orienteers, adventure racers and runners?

Re scratch teams, why not make scratch teams competitive in limited circumstances (two or more clubs from the same region that don't have a full team entered elsewhere?).

[mharky]

I think that the advertising of event is important, although not significant in participation numbers.

To really boost participation then it would have to remain roughly central in the contry. But that does mean a constant unfairness to scottish and southern teams.

The Harvester needs to have its set place in the orienteering calendar. Preferably before the summer break, that way the UKRL will be not spread out too much.

Ad Hoc teams should be allowed. Neigbouring clubs should be allowed to join forces if it means they can get a team together, and be competative. That is what the rule was created for. And if there are other people who really can't get 7 or 5 people together there could be a message board like they have on adcenture racing sites, and you can join together with other people and have a non-comp team. but its not about being competative, its about going. (which is one problem with the PPR)

[seabird]

We should not be too despondent about the numbers participating.

This year's event took place 11 weeks after permission was given to use the area. the organising club had not even given thought to putting it on 2 weeks earlier. Inevitably (particularly given the very small number of people actually involved in preparing the event) publicity suffered. Yet participation numbers held up.

Ever the optimist, I believe there are the beginnings of evidence, from running clubs of all kinds, that the decline in membership of the past 10 years is being halted and reversed. We may not be losing the 20-40s forever.

Good and early publicity for next year's event, along with us all taking the vigorous and enthusiatic debate following this years event to a wider audience within orienteering, through club magazines, websites and the like, could provide a good basis for the beginnings of a revival of the Harvester.

This is not dismiss some of the suggestions for changing the format.

[FatBoy]

This may mean you get less people wanting to do it but is more with the spirit.

I perhaps should've phrased that better. What I was trying to say was you might get less people going because there's more night-o but you might get more people going because it's less of a diluted challenge i.e. in the spirit. In effect I'm agreeing with those who said they don't go because the B isn't the B of old. I agree we need more teams to make it sustainable - I might actually be able to get a competitve run if that happens!

[ryeland of doom]

i think its about time that every major event in the UK was held in the west midlands. there is enough quality terrain. in fact, why not have the harvester and PPR every year in sutton park, the JK on cannock chase, the British Champs in Hawksmoor and Dimmingsdale, the British Sprint Champs in Telford Park, and all 9 National Events on the Wrekin?

Saving Herefordshire for World Cups... Like it.

(So do the brambles)

[o-a]

I've been at the Harvester for the first time this year and don't know if the event layout changes with the club it organizes it. But from my experiences with the 24hours O-relay in Germany that attracts usually more orienteers than any other orienteering event in Germany, I have the following suggestions to make the event more attractive (although I liked the Harvester as it was):

* have a big tent, a band and enough beer to warm people up before the event.
* provide catering, music and speakers the whole night long. the monitors were nice but only a few people are able to see something there. speakers would let everyone know what's going on at radio controls and changeover.
* put the camping place directly besides run in and changeover. so everyone gets involved in the action.
* it might enhance attractivity if everyone runs twice (ideally once at night and once in the morning, but I'd allow full flexibility in the running order to get people involved that are scared of night-o), surely courses must get a bit shorter for that, but they should still vary in length to allow some tactic considerations. this would result in more action at the assembly and better involvement of all team members, hence more team spirit, hence more fun.
* if you want to have more competitors outside of 20s-40s a category C with shorter courses or a bigger variety in TD and length would be necessary.

I could think of more suggestions if someone would be interested....

[FatBoy]

I think all of these appeal to me o-a but I'm not sure most will go for them. I suspect the camping was away from the action to allow people to sleep - whereas my reality was I slept through toilet doors slamming and the burger van generator (remind me not to be first to enter and get the closest camping spot next time...), but couldn't sleep afterward due to nettle overload.

The one thing I commented on at the time was last time I was trying to sleep in the middle of a night competition there was fireworks going off! This was a 24h bike race in France - they know how to throw a party alongside a sporting race.

[rocky]

anne´s post reminds me of a sketch i saw on tv once, might have been before the ads on countdown. it was about someone trying to make an international language that all countries could understand by tweaking english.... a few tweaks later and they are speaking german....

[Paulo]

anne´s post reminds me of a sketch i saw on tv once, might have been before the ads on countdown. it was about someone trying to make an international language that all countries could understand by tweaking english.... a few tweaks later and they are speaking german....

You mean this...


The European Union commissioners have announced that agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European communications, rather than German, which was the other possibility.

As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five-year phased plan for what will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short).

In the first year, 's' will be used instead of the soft 'c'. Sertainly, sivil servants will resieve this news with joy. Also, the hard 'c' will be replaced with 'k.' Not only will this klear up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome 'ph' will be replaced by 'f'. This will make words like 'fotograf' 20 per sent shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent 'e's in the languag is disgrasful, and they would go.
By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing 'th' by 'z' and 'w' by 'v'. During ze fifz year, ze unesesary 'o' kan be dropd from vords kontaining 'ou', and similar changes vud of kors; be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.

After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil b no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru.

[rocky]

thats the one, knew someone would be able to find it! cheers paul