Harvester

[RJ]

It is such a pity that some of the major team competitions aren't accessible to all every year, because of the large travel distances involved.

Harvester, Compass Sport Cup, Yvette Baker, Peter Palmer and British Schools all suffer because of this. Is there a case for using only the central part of the country?

I would suggest only WMOA/EMOA/YHOA/NWOA(southern half) be used to stage the events. Rotate through those regions. Yes, it is tough on the further based clubs..... but if we could build the size of the events then the outlying clubs might feel there was more to travel for!

The team competitions are very important for the health and the growth of the sport at club level. They help to build club spirit and cohesion.

The quality of the terrain is not the paramount consideration; TD3 is adequate, TD4 would be good. The team competitions need fast running conditions, not high technical challenges necessarily.

[Lil' God'rs]

I would suggest only WMOA/EMOA/YHOA/NWOA(southern half) be used to stage the events. Rotate through those regions. Yes, it is tough on the further based clubs.....

The quality of the terrain is not the paramount consideration; TD3 is adequate, TD4 would be good. The team competitions need fast running conditions, not high technical challenges necessarily.

Disagree 100% with all of that I'm afraid - you seem to expect the further based clubs to travel every year to technically inferior terrain. A club competition on TD3 terrain that's 5 hours drive away or a individual competition on TD5 terrain local to Edinburgh?? There is no contest.

[Guest]

It is such a pity that some of the major team competitions aren't accessible to all every year, because of the large travel distances involved.

Harvester, Compass Sport Cup, Yvette Baker, Peter Palmer and British Schools all suffer because of this. Is there a case for using only the central part of the country?

I would suggest only WMOA/EMOA/YHOA/NWOA(southern half) be used to stage the events. Rotate through those regions. Yes, it is tough on the further based clubs..... but if we could build the size of the events then the outlying clubs might feel there was more to travel for!

The team competitions are very important for the health and the growth of the sport at club level. They help to build club spirit and cohesion.

The quality of the terrain is not the paramount consideration; TD3 is adequate, TD4 would be good. The team competitions need fast running conditions, not high technical challenges necessarily.

This would put extra pressure on the clubs in these regions as they have to organise, plan etc. Also the Harvester is one where some areas can't be used due to proximity to 'joe public'.

Living to the south of your suggested areas I like the theory but see the problems. I know the juniors don't like the idea but perhaps there is a need to look at the Harvester and PP's being staged together.

It could make them both more of a spectacle but it would be essential that the junior activities like the 5 A'side football etc were not compromised. There would be a lot of extra considerations to run them side by side but it would perhaps offer economies of scale.

Hocolite

[bendover]

could work. however isn't one of the most exciting things about the PPR for alot of the juniors a chance to go on a weekend away racing without their parents?

[Ed]

PPR also has a lot of other requirements like indoors accom. which aren't needed for Harvester - means that a lot of potentially good areas wouldn't be able to be used.

Also the top older juniors could well be (and should be encouraged to be) playing a part in clubs' senior Harvester teams - staging with PPR would mean they may not have the chance.

Personally I travel more on the spec of the terrain than on the nominal importance of an event - I've happily done two or even three hours for a tasty colour coded, and equally happily ignored badge/national events a lot closer than that. OK, a one-off like the Harvester is something that I might travel further for even if the terrain wasn't special, but a Harvester in quality terrain (e.g. Loch Vaa/Inshriach/Docharn and Deisher - now one of those would be fun for next year's Harvester) would be a bigger temptation than one in Sutton Park... but then I'm not the average J.Orienteer who's scared of the dark and doesn't like too much of a challenge.

[Guest]

PPR also has a lot of other requirements like indoors accom. which aren't needed for Harvester - means that a lot of potentially good areas wouldn't be able to be used.

Also the top older juniors could well be (and should be encouraged to be) playing a part in clubs' senior Harvester teams - staging with PPR would mean they may not have the chance.

Personally I travel more on the spec of the terrain than on the nominal importance of an event - I've happily done two or even three hours for a tasty colour coded, and equally happily ignored badge/national events a lot closer than that. OK, a one-off like the Harvester is something that I might travel further for even if the terrain wasn't special, but a Harvester in quality terrain (e.g. Loch Vaa/Inshriach/Docharn and Deisher - now one of those would be fun for next year's Harvester) would be a bigger temptation than one in Sutton Park... but then I'm not the average J.Orienteer who's scared of the dark and doesn't like too much of a challenge.

Loch Vaa might be 3 hours for you but it's 6 -6.5 for us and that's prohibitive in 24hrs with part of the night out in the forest and if you only do a short leg it's not really conceivable to travel that sort of distance. Back to geography

Hocolite

[Guest]

Harvester, Compass Sport Cup, Yvette Baker, Peter Palmer and British Schools

I would suggest only WMOA/EMOA/YHOA/NWOA(southern half) be used to stage the events.

I believe YBT, BSSC and BSOC already use this system. Peter Palmer definately not, Harvester and CSC not too sure about. I have a feeling CSC may do.

[Godders]

Loch Vaa might be 3 hours for you but it's 6 -6.5 for us and that's prohibitive in 24hrs with part of the night out in the forest and if you only do a short leg it's not really conceivable to travel that sort of distance. Back to geography

Hocolite

Boo hoo.

We've driven from Edinburgh to East Anglia to run in the Harvester. Pretty sure that was a least 7 hours each way. The Forest of Dean Harvester was probably 6 hours each way and Edinburgh to Longshaw and back was over 4 hours each way. If last year hadn't clashed with Scotland v Lithuania then we'd have been down to MV too.

Have to agree with Ed that the events I go to these days are determined more by the terrain than the level of event.

[RJ]

Unfortunately, the way the sport is at the moment, with declining membership and smaller attendance at events, planning for the future is all about making compromises. Of course folk won't like the thought of all the events being in the central part of the country! But if we build the size and stature of these events then they will fulfil their function of building club cohesion and team spirit.

For the extremities of the country hopefully we would have the 'pull' of the major event to motivate attendance. Using coaches/buses would relieve the burden of the travel from individuals. Why can't we have a subsidy for those coaches.... the event could be levied an amount to cover an appropriate number of them, or proportion of the cost.

Until we double the number of active orienteers we are in the realm of having to make compromises if we are to stop a complete collapse of the sport. For instance how many Harvester teams do there have to be for the event to survive? We're close.... aren't we?????

[harry]

Yeah hocolite stop boo hooing. 6 hrs (or a 1 hr cheap flight) wasn't prohibitive for Pillar Wood so I don't see why 6 hours for somewhere like Loch Vaa is such a hardship. Somewhere like that for the Harvester would be cool.
The Swedes had to trek up to Umea 2-3 times last year for Swedish Champs, it's so typical for Brits to boo hoo about travel.
Mind you Godders was just as bad about all the races being down South this year - but if that terrain doesn't excite him then that's his choice not to travel.

[Guest]

Anyone know why the PPR doesn't use camping?

[Becks]

Would you like to supervise a group of children ranging in age from 12 to 18 in seperate tents, remembering for some of them this is the first time away from home without parents? I certainly wouldn't, it's hard enough in a sports hall!

[Guest]

I agree supervision would be a bit of a problem, but if it was a choice of no PPR or camping I know where I would place my vote. Finding a venue with terrain and a sports hall that councils are prepared to rent out to a gang of 10 - 18 year olds that are going to run in the dark can't be easy.

[Guest]

(or a 1 hr cheap flight) wasn't prohibitive for Pillar Wood .

Yes but you lot always forget the several dependent children who have to tag along for the ride, be fed etc - it all soon mounts up - or are these events just to become the province of the young unattached elites what does anyone else matter (except to put events on for the likes of you)

[graeme]

The Swedes had to trek up to Umea 2-3 times last year for Swedish Champs

..but they always hold their big relay, Tiomila, in a central location. If you decide to skip an individual, thats your problem, but if you dont travel to a relay you can scupper the whole team.

For a good individual, quality terrain comes first, for a big relay quality competition is more important.

With respect to school exams, its a shame juniors will miss races in June. But assuming we dont ban events from the best time of year - which national event would you rather miss - BOC, PPT, CSC or Harvester?

Graeme