orienteering in 20's and 30's

[Mrs H.]

good work Sean - if nothing else if shows how difficult and costly this kind of formal provision is going to be.

I think a more realistic approach is going to be getting clubs to provide a family tent at events.

As you know I pushed for this idea at the JK and i think it worked. I saw it being well used on both days, on day 2 there were 2 mums looking after lots of little kids. i liked the old carpet Rod had provided - and I had provided the crayons and cheap tpoys. now this was quite a costly provision with no financial return - I got it through on the proviso that it was also a public shelter tent needed at a time of year which could have been very inclement - or else I doubt I would have got away with it.

It seems to me tho' that networks were already being established among the people using it. I could foresee that if clubs provided similar - at relatively low cost - at most events then parents would establish systems between themselves. Maybe one or two parents might not run at all at one event to provide cover - but over a 10 event rota that might be cosnidered worth while investment of a morning. If this is done on a strictly informal basis then it must surely preclude all the ghastly red tape which will otherwise tie the scheme into unusable knots.

Parents! I suggest you get the ball rolling in your own clubs - get the tent, get the toys and get the other parents together!

[SeanC]

I must admit I wasn't at the JK to see the successful creche. I agree, this seems a much better idea. Glad to see this is allowed in today's regulated world.

Small clubs might need a bit of help though. My club has only one smallish tent and no groundsheet. Would a Nopesport parents' forum help to promote and organise this.

As I'm not a parent, I shall shut up now!

[Mrs H.]

It wasn't a creche - it was a family tent (or a cordoned off bit of the public tent) and I think that's the crusial difference - families should be able to do what they like inside it - mobile babysitting more like

Would a Nopesport parents' forum help to promote and organise this.

As you all know - i am far too old to require child care - but if I wasn't - I would sort this out. I set up a babysitting circle when my kids came along. All based on tokens and reciprocal arrangements - it was called "The Round Robin" (sweet!) it worked brilliantly and didn't cost a penny. Use nope to set up something more suited to the situation. If just 4 or 5 families in a similar locality (that could be a whole region - after all its the events you go to not where you live that counts) got together, found a tent etc, then 9 out of 10 of you would run concurrently at 9 out of 10 events with the added bonus that the kids might actually enjoy the social side (it'll take the minder an hour to get them all round the string course anyway)!

[Guest]

G'Day

My first post - I've lurked on occasions.

I've just sort of come back to the sport after several years out - I'm now early 30's. Junior Orineteering was great - loads of training events, specific races, and a regular bunch of like-minded and (most important) socially active, mates spread across the South West. In short - lots of fun and lots of competition.

Similarly, University Orienteering (with the now sadly defunct Lancaster Uni ULOS) was excellent. Sundays were much more about the banter on the minbus and the pub crawl on the way home. Mucking around with student orienteers from across the UK at JK and BUSA - loads of fun (Stodge - do you remember the road sign stealing contest Cardiff - v Southampton I think?).

Post Uni-Orienteering - largely crap.

Have you spotted the common theme here?. It's not necessarily about the sport itself, it's about enjoying the whole experience. I do love the bit between the start and finish lines - as we all know it's a physical and mental challenge whatever your ability. However, I just can't stand the dull, narrow-minded, bearded, middle-class, red-tape loving mob that usually rule the assembly field. That's what drove me away from Orienteering and into Adventure Racing.

I like the idea of beer tents etc - the social bit is really importanlt. However the reply 'oh you can't possibly do that, think of the U18's, the noise.........' is typical of the kind of attitude that is stifling the sport.

Rant over.

Stodge + Stodgetta - how are you?

PM

[TommyC]

Something I've seen in continental Europe - eastern Europe in particular, I think - are local 'Sports Clubs'. In other words, you don't run for London Orienteering Club, you run for London Sports Club, which includes skiing, cross-country, orienteering, all sorts.

I think there's something to gain from this type of approach. From my experience, nearly everyone of a sporty persuasion is quite keen on the idea of orienteering. There must be a huge number of other niche sports (kayaking? climbing? cross-country?), with similar clubs covering similar areas to our orienteering clubs. How many O clubs in the UK have a proper partnership with these sports clubs?

Just thinking like this leads to some good ideas: us orienteers could target other sports clubs and market our sport there - surely more likely to pay off than advertising at the gym? We could arrange 'sports exchanges' or something similar and take a bunch of tennis players orienteering. How about multi-sport come-and-try it days?

[stodge]

G'Day

My first post - I've lurked on occasions.

My best man me thinks......

What attracted you to hashing and shinty over orienteering other than the beer for the benefit of others ?

Is your email address still the same?

[Mrs H.]

. However, I just can't stand the dull, narrow-minded, bearded, middle-class, red-tape loving mob that usually rule the assembly field.

I think a lot of that has already been covered earlier on - and some of us have been trying to do something about it - even tho' our 20s and 30s are long behind us - but lets face it - those of you who are in that age bracket arn't kids any more and have the power and ability to do something about it yourself - you can make the sport into what you want it to be - look at Nope - surely a step in the right direction - you're quite old enough to dictate the direction of the sport - don't wait for someone to do it for you.

at the Jk I aimed my effort firmly at the 12- 18 year olds because I think they still need a "grown up" to help[ facilitate events - and with super-cool nopers like Eddie et al to front the operation it took wrinkly me out of the sight line.
But you don't need that - tell your clubs which are organising (bigger) events what you want and offer to help get it sorted - don't whinge that no-one is doing it for you

[Guest]

Stodge - aye email still the same.

PM[/quote]

[stodge]

Guest why dont you join im sure Rurtees is a name not yet taken
And you did manage to get something in a national newspaper about the world champs....

[John Morris]

This is a WONDERFUL thread, not least because it's like one of those time-lapse nature photography sequences.

Read the early pages - they're about what students do on Sunday mornings.

Read the middle pages - they're about the loneliness of the mid-20s athlete.

Read the later pages - they're about what to do with the kids.

However, enough about you; now something about ME...

I was a cross-country runner at University - I started running at school when our games master started checking whether we were all wearing underpants under our football kit - and not having got into GIRLS (take that as you will...) experienced great disorientation when University spat me out into the real world. Yes, I too only really lived on the team bus! Sad...

"Real world" cross country clubs were a great disappointment (no team bus...) so I fell out of any athletics until I joined Scottish & Newcastle Breweries, a company so embarrassed about its image that it set up a gym for its staff - right next to Arthur's Seat - and many circuits of said Seat later, there I was taking up orienteering, as a novice M35, in ESOC's regulation pajamas...

And most of our adult members have done something very similar. Very, very few orienteers transfer directly from the junior "it's what our family does" ranks to senior classes. If you look at BOF's age/sex statistics (I've got a 2004 set if you're old and sad enough to be interested), they show quite clearly that there are two separate statistical populations. If you drop out in your 20's, you are just cottoning on to what the leaders of your generation sussed out at age 14. Wonder what that could have been...

If adventure racing appeals to the 20's & 30's (and it would appeal to me if I wasn't a timed-out physical wreck) maybe we should form an alliance - connecting our calendars and swapping our members from junior O to young adult AR and back to senior O, as capabilities dictate.

Because, in spite of what some contributors have said, there is no change in competitiveness between one generation and the next (Think you're going to age gracefully - forget it!), just an acceptance that nothing works as well as it did when you didn't know what to do with it (so much more elegant in the original French...).

Well, that's it really. It's way past an M60's bedtime and, if I'm to compete less abysmally than last weekend, I need to drink my Sanatogen...

Last thought - don't mess about with orienteering to make it attractive to leather-loined 20 year olds - just find ways of recapturing them when real enjoyment has less to do with running and more to do with cunning...

I said that before, didn't I... Sigh...

[krocks]

Being someone in their late 20’s who has just been orienteering for about a year, I suppose I could comment.

I agree that the social aspect is important - not just for a post-event drinking session, but the fact that you may meet up more often than once a week for training or some other sport. I'd always fancied trying orienteering previously, but if wasn't for my ending up in Edinburgh Uni last year, I may never have started.

The scale and possibilities of the sport should be emphasised - the potential to do it just for healthy fun, or to be a bit more competitive, or to try for international level. For example, I'd vaguely heard of the O-Ringen before I began orienteering, but thought of it as being a quirky mass fun-run in the Swedish forest. It can be that, if that's want you want, but the attraction of being able to compete in the same terrain at the same time as some of the world's best is a great incentive. So, let them know it is very possible.

Orienteering events, big and small, need to be publicised better. And I don't mean just on nopesport and within orienteering circles. I wonder if you carried out a survey of the whole population of Surrey and the surrounding area, how many are aware of the upcoming World Cup event to be held there? Now, that is big event that should be hyped, as it would give people an idea of the scale of the sport and what is possible.
Local, regional and even national media should be used more. My local papers are always full of weekly articles from club PRO's and photos from events for every type of sport, from cards to football to bowls. I have yet to see orienteering mentioned, even though many of my local club's events take place close by.

I'm not so sure that branding orienteering too much as an 'adventure sport' is such a good way to go. Yes, it does attract some when they see that adventure label, and image is important to a lot of people, but it can put others off. I've had conversations where I've tried in vain to persuade friends that going hiking, climbing or off-piste skiing is well within anyone's ability, with a bit of practice. Honestly, you mention adventure or extreme and some fit sports people just turn off, probably due to watching too many pepsi-max ads. They think of those sports as being elitist and open only to wearers of baggy-arsed trousers that call each other ‘dude’.
Don't take the Downing St. approach of sexing it up, and then disappointing people when the WMD's are dressed in pyjamas ...

[gross2006]

I wonder if you carried out a survey of the whole population of Surrey and the surrounding area, how many are aware of the upcoming World Cup event to be held there?

Actually from what I've seen & heard I believe the WC organisation have done as good a job as they can regarding publicity I still don't think there will be much external support but there will be some... which is a start. And the advent of the big screen will help boost spectator interest.... not so sure of the WIFI zone... but the press will like that.........

[SeanC]

[quote="TommyC"]Something I've seen in continental Europe - eastern Europe in particular, I think - are local 'Sports Clubs'. In other words, you don't run for London Orienteering Club, you run for London Sports Club, which includes skiing, cross-country, orienteering, all sorts.
[/quote]

There is an example of excellent links with such a club. When I lived on the south coast I used to be a member of Brighton Explorers. Members did as many outdoor sports as possible. The club had an expert for each activity, the orienteering expert being a prominent SO orienteer who organised occasional Brighton Explorers trips to local O events. My guess is that these outdoor clubs are well known to orienteers, but it might be worth an internet search to see if there's one in your area. I've just done a google search on "outdoor clubs Britain", after 3 pages of links on gear shops and nudism I found a link for "East Pennine Outdoor Club" (http://www.epoc.retrosnub.co.uk/home.html). They look similar to Brighton Explorers except that they don't have orienteering on their sports list. I'm sure I'd find more outdoor clubs if I searched some more.

Re: John's comments on BOF statistics. It would be interesting to compare the number of active orienteers in the 21/35 categories for 2004 and 1984. My memory is that there were many more in 1984, but my memory might be faulty. Maybe it doesn't matter. Replies have talked about how retaining and recruit orienteers and how to improve the sport which would have been a more interesting question.

By the way, I have no objection to beards so long as they are egg and lice free.

[NeilC]

Brighton explorer club are still going strong but simply not interested in orienteering. I've invited them to O-events, trail challenges and even offered to put on an introductory event for them. The impression I got was that they were as resistant to new ideas as many other established set-ups.

On a more general aside to this thread our local club event last Saturday had 130 runners, and this would have been more had many regulars not been in a WC meeting. The concept of friendly, easy-to-organise, local events starts to creak under these numbers. Yes it would be nice to have a younger contingent - but at whose expense?

[gross2006]

Yes it would be nice to have a younger contingent - but at whose expense?

The statement above is the key. Orienteers are happy enough if everything is ok with them.... happy that it's an old dying sport