Why did people not click to there being problems and protest as soon as they finished ?
Because the map did not give a clear enough picture of the terrain for people to be very sure whether or not they were in the right place, the flag was in the wrong place etc.
I imagine that having found it most people thought 'thank goodness', most of those that missed would have though 'I'm such an arse !' and got on with the rest of the course.
The particular problem with number 2 was that there was no attack point close enough to give you a precise run in, no features near by that gave you a precise reference point.
To such an extent that the flag was misplaced.
The terrain was all very vague, the mapping was not able to fully convey this and in addition mapping of pits and depressions appeared to be selective.
As I progressed through the first section of the course I had less and less confidence in the map, by No. 8 I had pretty much lost faith such that on contemplating 9 my foremost thought was 'there is no was of navigating to this' just compass pacing and hope.
Had I been planning I would not have used a single pit in the whole of that area - there were plenty of other features.
JK void ELITE
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I lost faith in the map after the warm up course. By the last control of the warm up map there was a truly vast pit, not mapped right next to a much smaller pit, mapped in the correct place and with the control in it.
I thought you were not supposed to put the kites of controls on pits in the bottom of the pit, but on the side so the control is just as visible when noone is punching it as it is with someone punching it (or something like that)...
I thought you were not supposed to put the kites of controls on pits in the bottom of the pit, but on the side so the control is just as visible when noone is punching it as it is with someone punching it (or something like that)...
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Kitch wrote:The particular problem with number 2 was that there was no attack point close enough to give you a precise run in, no features near by that gave you a precise reference point.
Actually, there was, if you went around by the path to the right. Its not the fastest route, but I had so little confidence after #1 I went that way for "safety" (and so obviously missed the flag).
Had I been planning I would not have used a single pit in the whole of that area - there were plenty of other features.
I would have used the pits - but in such a vague area I wouldn't have hidden the control. If I'd been controller, I might have had the flag in the wrong place (noone's perfect) but I'd have insisted it was high enough to see from ~20m away (the size of the symbol on the map). Under those circumstances, it would have been visible from the right place and I'm confident the race wouldn't have been protested.
My comment on finishing - which I stand by - was "well planned, badly controlled"
Graeme
PS. Gross is right that I had no idea the control was wrong when I finished. My point is that I would have been willing to protest later if someone felt they couldn't for fear of having fingers pointed at them. And to enable Rob f/hocolite make any valid impersonal point they might have about the facts.
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Christmas Cup (Loch Ard)
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Christmas Cup (Loch Ard)
Coasts and Islands (Orkney/Shetland)
SprintScotland (Post 6-day)
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graeme - god
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Hehe the vast pit had a tape on it as well! I was laughing about it with Craney at the start saying "hmm.. bodes well.."
Then Palmer offered us a tenner for our whistles. But in the end he found one in the portaloo. Think it must have been yours housewife. What a jolly time we all had at the elite start.
Then Palmer offered us a tenner for our whistles. But in the end he found one in the portaloo. Think it must have been yours housewife. What a jolly time we all had at the elite start.
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harry - addict
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harry wrote:Then Palmer offered us a tenner for our whistles. But in the end he found one in the portaloo. Think it must have been yours housewife. What a jolly time we all had at the elite start.
Should've taken the money..... There were spare whistle & SI cards at the start as I guessed some would turn up without. I personally think the now whistle, no go rule is naff.....
- gross2006
I smiled sweetly and the started let me borrow one (which I handed back at the finish, but was sorely tempted to keep for day two). I bet he took one look at Palmers grin and thought 'you're not putting my whistle down your trousers'.
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Blanka wrote:Could someone please post an extract of the map for those of us who weren't running the men's elite?
See Oli and Jenny's website - click on the little map extract and you get the whole mens day 1 map
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Ed - diehard
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Cheers Becky. That makes things a lot simpler.
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J.Tullster - diehard
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Becks wrote:For those of you running M20, it will now be 3 races to count out of seven towards the final. So no need to worry about making it to an extra race!
I don't think it's really fair that the 20's that ran 20L can count JK day 1, it means that even though others went to the same amount of races they have one more race that could count.
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MF wrote:Becks wrote:For those of you running M20, it will now be 3 races to count out of seven towards the final. So no need to worry about making it to an extra race!
I don't think it's really fair that the 20's that ran 20L can count JK day 1, it means that even though others went to the same amount of races they have one more race that could count.
Those sending the invitations for the final are aware of the M20E race having been voided, and I gather from the discussion on the JCG mailing list that a record will be kept of who would have qualified with 4 out of 8 races if the JK day had not been voided and those that qualify under both schemes will probably be invited to the final.
(Just parahrasing the stuff from the emails, but that's the main gist of it).
- Blanka
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About time planners and controllers took some responsibility
I have to say that I agree with the posters who have been expressing opinions that a void course may be good for the sport. It's about time more mappers, planners and controllers concentrated harder on putting controls on features which are clearly defined on both the ground and the map.
Too many times in the past the juries have been spineless and rejected complaints to avoid offending the event organisers. In fact wasn't it at the British relays at Brown Clee in the mid-90s when there was a control hung 50-100m from where it should have been? That was laughed off as, "the control was in the right place but the map was slightly out of scale". I mean, if that's an excuse then why do we even bother with maps!?
No, we planners and controllers need to pick control features that are well mapped from all approaches and hang the controls so that they can be reliably navigated to. It's not exactly rocket science is it? How hard can it be to hang the controls in the right place?
So, well done to the jury for doing your job for once.
David Heffernan.
Too many times in the past the juries have been spineless and rejected complaints to avoid offending the event organisers. In fact wasn't it at the British relays at Brown Clee in the mid-90s when there was a control hung 50-100m from where it should have been? That was laughed off as, "the control was in the right place but the map was slightly out of scale". I mean, if that's an excuse then why do we even bother with maps!?
No, we planners and controllers need to pick control features that are well mapped from all approaches and hang the controls so that they can be reliably navigated to. It's not exactly rocket science is it? How hard can it be to hang the controls in the right place?
So, well done to the jury for doing your job for once.
David Heffernan.
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This seems a bit of a similar situation to BOC years ago at Clumber when W21E was voided due to a complaint about the label with the control code becoming detached from the control (which was near the finish and not difficult). The complaint was made by the WINNER, but because the control had the wrong code visible the jury had no choice but to void the course. This was followed by accusations of imcompetence being levelled at the experienced and conscientious organisers who, lets face it had given up hours of their own time to put on the event, and calls for the elite races to be organised by, well the implication was, better qualified people.....At the time it appeared to be designed to further the cause of the UK cup which started soon after.
Good to see "what goes around, comes around"!
Good to see "what goes around, comes around"!
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