JK void ELITE

[ivan]

Personal comment on the unfortunate (M21E Day 1) control

I was thrown on this control as the 'wet pit' was mapped as being in a 'bulge' on the side of the clearing (although there were a couple). I ran between these bulges and found the correct point (where it should have been). As i ran back down to previous 'bulge' (thinking i must just have been blind!) my 2 minute man ran in and fell straight into the control and i happened to see him. Hence although it was only 20 metres out of place i don't believe it was actually visible from its correct location.

As for voiding the course - it is unfortunate but i guess correct as if you were slighly off line you tended to miss the control.

However - well done to the organising team on the whole, thanks. Nice little area for the relays aswell, even with all the green still nice a runable, good for relays i thought.

[Godders]

I lost time there in much the same way as Ivan. Tried to run to the bulge of the clearing but couldn't really see it, did a bit of loop and came upon the control - must have been within about 10m the first time and not seen it as it was hung so low.

Sadly it's not the first time there's been a mishung control on M21E at the JK. In the past the British "it's in the wrong place but doesn't matter" approach has applied. Although unfortunate perhaps voiding this time will make planners and controllers make sure the controls are in the right place in future.

[SIman]

I don't know whether voiding the first two legs instead of the whole course was allowed, considered or fair but it would have produced these results.

Code: Select all

   Full Course                          "Start" at control 2
   Runner                 Time          Runner                  Time
1 Oliver Johnson          35.43      1 Jamie Stevenson          32.25
2 Jamie Stevenson         36.38      2 Oliver Johnson           32.46
3 Jonathan Duncan         36.56      3 Jonathan Duncan          33.35
4 Öystein Kval Österbö    37.18      4 Öystein Kval Österbö     33.55
5 Matt Crane              37.57      5 Matt Crane               34.07
6 Allan Bogle             38.39      6 Allan Bogle              34.24
7 Ivar Haugen             38.40      7 Scott Fraser             34.58
8 Murray Strain           38.45      8 Ed Nash                  35.17
9 Ed Nash                 38.46      9 Murray Strain            35.21
10 Ewan McCarthy           38.55     10 Ivar Haugen              35.26
11 Scott Fraser            39.21     11 Ewan McCarthy            35.37
12 Duncan Archer           39.59     12 Richard Wren             36.25
13 Nick Barrable           40.19     13 Duncan Archer            36.34
14 Clive Parry             40.39     14 Nick Barrable            36.44
15 Stephen Palmer (M35)    40.44     15 Daniel Marston           36.55
15 Alastair Buckley        40.44     16 Alastair Buckley         36.56
17 Rob Baker               40.56     17 Clive Parry              37.06
18 Richard Wren            40.58     18 Stefan Andersson         37.28
19 Stefan Andersson        41.41     19 Stephen Palmer (M35)     37.29
20 Neil Northrop           41.48     20 Rob Baker                37.43
21 Marcus Pinker           41.57     21 Neil Northrop            37.44
22 Daniel Marston          42.13     22 Marcus Pinker            38.20
23 Graham Gristwood        42.27     22 David Godfree            38.20
24 Michael Sprot           42.50     24 Matthew Speake           38.32
25 David Godfree           42.56     25 Jeremy Edwards           38.53


[rob f]

i think the protest was most fishy. Hocolite will tell her opinion at somepoint, which i backup.

[Brizzle]

Well do tell us Rob. I'm just pissed off because I had a good run day 1, which was void and a crap run day 2! Could make a big difference to my FCC points.

[rob f]

well i'm not saying it because i don't want to point fingers

[graeme]

Well, to save you having to point fingers, let me say that if someone else hadn't already protested then I would have.

The control was in the wrong place, and it's misplacement determined the winner of the race.

Now, lets have your rebuttal.

Graeme

[harry]

i think despite the grumbles on here about people losing their uk cup points etc most people will agree yes it was a shame the control was in the wrong place, but seeing as it was, the course had to be voided.

"pointing fingers" at neil or dan or whoever is ridiculous. the protest was upheld and therefore was completely justified.

apart from the clear fact that it was in the wrong place the thought behind the decision to protest was that another unfair selection race result shouldn't be allowed to stand. apparently at the jk short in wales there was a control in the wrong place, noone protested, the results stood and then day 2 was cancelled because of the "snow". so the selections and jk results were based on one unfair race. being experienced elites they knew that if they didn't protest at the time they couldn't complain later. and quite right.

if the selectors feel they want/need to they can still look at saturdays times/splits along with the other 3 results when they meet after the beoc sprint/middle weekend.

if people are very upset about the uk cup points maybe they should ask if the overall can be based on one less race or something. ?

[housewife]

The control was in the wrong place, the course should have been voided. 'Pointing fingers' is indeed ridiculos. If you feel hard done by because you had a good run, you may have beaten people beacuse they mucked up due to the control being in the wrong place. Times that come after the voided control are in my opinion irrelevant. Losing time at the beginning of a race always affects your mindset.

As for it being a selection race, there are three other selection races from which to select. The other three (one of which is a middle race) are on far more relevant terrain to the world cup races. I'm sure the selectors will not have a problem picking a mens team.

[Lil' God'rs]

Although unfortunate perhaps voiding this time will make planners and controllers make sure the controls are in the right place in future.

Exactly - the thing I'm most concerned about in planning the Scottish Relays is getting a control in the wrong place.

[Becks not signed in]

Just to let those of you who are running M20 and worried about not attending enough FCC races to qualify for the final because of the voiding, a decision is being made by the JCG as we speak over what to do and I'll let you know as soon as I do.

[gross2006]

Well, to save you having to point fingers, let me say that if someone else hadn't already protested then I would have.

Graeme

Strange comment from Graeme.... if he felt that strongly about it then why didn't he put a protest in not long after finishing running rather than wait until after the prizegiving...... so I doubt if Graeme would actually have submitted a protest......

One interesting point is that there was virtually no adverse comment on the finish line..... Ed Catmur moaned about a control later in the course where he lost time & Matt Speake obviously had a bad run... but no-one crossing the line made any comments at all about control 2 - I was on the line throughout the competition & spoke with quite a few runners as they finished.

[harry]

Although it's an interesting point, I'm not really surprised people didn't say anything on the finish line. Most people were totally screwed at the finish or they didn't try hard enough. Often your immediate perception of a race can change after you've warmed down and you have a good look at your map.

Aren't you supposed to put blips out of your head through the rest of the race and think only in the present and future. Then I guess they looked back at their map, figured where they had run on no. 2 and decided for absolute certain in their head and after discussion with others maybe (?) that it had been wrong and put in a protest then. The flower ceremony wasn't very long after the finish anyway.

[Guest]

I heard a rumour that the jury were unimpressed by the first control but the second was so clearly wrong, they just had to give a verdict on that - anyone heard more?

[mharky]

This was probably sue to a few reasons: I guess lots og people probably found the control as it wasn't too far off the direct route into the actual feature, all you had to do was look the right wayl, see it, and off you go. Thats what I did, so I didn't think anything of it.

For those people who went to the actualy site, and didn't find anything, then eventually found it where it was, they probably would have assumed that they were at fault, after all it was a World Ranking, UK Cup, FCC and National Event, so they probably just though, oh, i was wrong. Which is what stephan though.

But at the end of the day, it was in the wrong place. So the course was voided. That's that.