orienteering in 20's and 30's

[Guest]

Here's a few comments from someone who started orienteering aged 20 (ignoring a taster event age 10), and who is now 35.

I started when I went to uni as there was a thriving club. You travelled to the event together in a minibus, did the event and then went to the pub afterwards for the post race analysis. Brilliant social activity, and you got the instant feedback / learning needed to get hooked on the sport.

I believe that this social aspect of the sport that is seriously lacking at present. Yes, all the image things good and are likely to increase the chance of someone trying the sport out, but it is the social side of things that will catch and and more importantly keep the average person interested and coming back for more.

If I was a beginner today, it's likely that I would have done one or two events, as orienteering sounds like fun. But, given the lack of social scene or informal training / event analyis in the pub etc I probably wouldn't have done much more than this before giving up and finding something better. My own (large) club has virtually no social side to it for most of the year. Having tried to change this, suceeded for a while and then over the years failed, I've now effectively given up. I orienteer on Sunday mornings (because I still love the sport), but I go and do something much more social in the afternoons.

[redkite]

Sounds to me that we need to form a club that does go for a pint after an event. any takers?

[Mrs H.]

Like Guest - I have also been trying to work on the social sid of things - the bit of the sport I do best but I agree it isn't easy - another big problem people in the upper part of this age group face is very young children. I was lucky in so far as my youngest was already 7 when we started and all the children were able to become properly active very quickly. It must be nigh on impossible if you have small babies in a steamed up car on a rainy car park - and yet that is the age I would have most enjoyed a spell in the fresh air. How do the scandinavians deal with this phase. I've seen the amazing childcare in action at the o-ringen - but what happens at smaller district and regional events?

[Guest]

What about sharing transport or even hiring a coach?
That's how I did get to the events in Sweden in early 90s.
Are Swedish clubs still that 'social'? May be it is just practical and prudent swedes...
How much Gordon Brown should hike the price for a litter to make us to consider the above?

[David May]

What about a beer tent at events and a marquee plus tables and chairs where you can sit, eat and socialise - tables and chairs outside in fine weather too.

I gather that we're having both of these at the World Cup/Surrey Five-O so, if you've not entered the Five-O yet, find out how to do so at http://www.wcup2005.org.uk and enjoy the socialising!

David

[gross2006]

What about a beer tent at events and a marquee plus tables and chairs where you can sit, eat and socialise - tables and chairs outside in fine weather too.

I gather that we're having both of these at the World Cup/Surrey Five-O so, if you've not entered the Five-O yet, find out how to do so at http://www.wcup2005.org.uk and enjoy the socialising!

David

Complements to the Chief......... if the WC achieves nothing else this is a big step forward:) One of the great things about European Orienteering is being able to sit & socialise before & after running........ in GB it's all about queing.... que for the toilets, que to download, que for Wilfs........

[Guest]

Two points
Distance and time to get to events are a big turn off for time strapped 20's & 30's. The gym is in the local town not 2hours down the motorway. This means Sprint O and Urban accessible events are a must. With the finish in a club/pub for the social. They did this at the Belgian 3 days. I for one would welcome a cool lager or whatever when I finish, maybe that goes back to my team sport days.

Beers tents have been used certainly at the White Rose but I believe the behaviour of a certain group led to a discontinuation.


Hocolite

[RJ]

Beer tents at Regional/District events... no, not a good idea! Don't forget all the under 18's.

Better to use the same tent with tables and chairs for eating your Wilf's, sitting and socialising.

And of course have your flat screen with scrolling results, and live video link from a last control close by.

[Guest]

Hi,

I feel this is a topic that I can add something to. I'm a 29 year old novice (I'm the thorns in paws guy from an earlier thread, thanks for the advice).

As background, to explain where I'm coming from, I'm an experienced hill walker who'd always enjoyed the navigation, and I'd done a bit of road running. I've always played sport and am pretty competative by nature.

I'd say that Orienteering has a lot of strong points to interest a good proportion of people (as has been said adventure racing is very popular, and is only a souped up less accessible version of Orienteering)
-turn up and try it. as an outsider I am unbelivably impressed with the organisation that goes into events, and the careful grading that makes it interesting straight away even for complete novices. low cost and limited kit are important
-good information and quick results on the internet, well mostly.
-since starting last November I've invited loads of friends, and they've tried it, loved it and come again. I don't quite see why there is a recruitment problem

On the negative side:
-I don't think you should worry too much about negative image from PE or some non-competitive history. Orienteering simply doesn't have any recognition from the outside world.
-there don't seem to be any other adult novices around, which makes it a very individual sport. I've joined the local club, but there are no training runs or ... I'm not sure what I expected but I expected there to be something happening.
-events are always miles away, and large proportion of the time is spent sat in a car. (which is really why I keep inviting friends)
-I always lose by quite alot, and find it difficult to judge whether I've had a good run or a bad run. I know i could enter a lower class but I think I'll learn quicker on browns than else where and for now my ego can cope with being beaten.

Having read what has been said already and of course the related topic of funding / BOF membership I can see that there are some dilemas that the sport has to juggle.
come along you don't have to run vs adrenalin fueled madness
access to good terrain vs easy journeys for the participants
competitive sport vs welcoming newbies
organising big events vs local network (training, shared lifts)

Basically though it seems to come down to numbers. Orienteering has more than enough life in it to attract plenty of people (which will include mums and dads, ranking juniors, adult novices, old timers and so on). Worrying about it and writting strategic plans are no substitute for talking to people and inviting them along, a laison officer for the local running club etc. And then keeping newcomers interested.

Jon

p.s. I agree with all previous concerns regarding beards and pyjamas

[bendover]

RJ there's beer tents at loads of events that i've been to on the continent, from france to czech to denmark.

there doesn't seem to be much problem over there. is there a problem with kids seeing <shock, horror> a pint of beer or a glass of wine? is it a uniquely british problem? is it just british kids who shouldn't be allowed to see a beer or someone drinking a beer? I saw my dad drink a few beers when i was a kid and it hasn't turned me into an alcoholic or a drug addict.

the problems with rowdiness etc occur when there is a campsite at certain events (that sound like 'bite nose'), and groups of younger orienteers - often under age - are allowed to drink without being properly supervised.

i reckon that if you had a beer tent at national events or say the finish area at the JK/BOC it would get well used but perhaps more importantly sensibly used. orienteers generally arent football hooligans, and when was the last time you saw yobbish behaviour at an o-event?

it would be fairly easy to police the 18 age limit. everyone knows each other!

[P2B]

My (new!) husband is starting out in the world of O. He hates being beaten by 'old beards' (no explanation necessary!). He's got me in to AR recently and we're having a whale of a time spending loads of money on kit/travel/entry fees. It IS expensive and to me, coming from an orienteering background, find it quite elitest and exclusive. We came 5th in an event at the end of last year and I thought we got bad looks cos no-one knew us, although no-one seemed to know anyone else anyway. I like the family atmosphere of orienteering (and I'm 26)

The husband finds AR more thrilling. He can go to work on Monday and say I did this, that and the other and covered a million miles (I on the other hand can barely hobble in to work cos I ache so much). He can poor over kit lists and outdoor gear internet sites to his hearts content. If it weren't for me, he wouldn't O at all and I'm gradually doing less and less... not JK-ing this year, cos I can't face a long weekend of a long face when he gets beat/lost. Also, we're viewing the Easter weekend as a chance to put in some serious bike and foot miles in preparation for the Bristol Rat Race (Brooner, can you get us free goodies for the Bristol one?!)

Being a coach, I've tried my magic coaching techniques on him, but I guess it's like teaching him to drive... he is gradually getting better, but if there's a choice of a rubbish South East District Event or a couple of hours in the car to do an AR, we're off to the AR, no thinking required. Maybe it's the area we live in?

There's no answer to the kit problem. Either it's cool and trendy and therefore expensive and puts people off (like the aerobics kit post) or it's PJs... I think the uni's way forward with kit is a brillian example.

Must dash, got to find the razor, new kit catologue and call an emergency meeting. I nearly fainted when I was presented with a club tshirt after the CSC the other week. Plain white, with plain blue writing in straight lines saying '(name of club) Compass Sport Cup 2005'. Gosh, the design ideas that went in to that! Use it for cycling to work and getting it covered in road slime.

[Mrs H.]

I thought Jon's post very interesting - he's right about the dilemmas isn't he - and there are even more than he lists. I guess that's the problem when you have a sport which has the potential to be all things to all people - although that is an enormous strngth it is also a weakness. It's the nub of my agrument with Awk about inclusivity and exclusivity and i guess we have to target a certain group with a certain image and keep them fairly sperate.

My own personal beef (and this is just me speaking) is that in a society which increasingly segregates the generations, orienteering allows all age groups to meet up with mutual respect and common ground.
I DON'T WANT to be confined to a middle aged activity. I love mixing with all ages. It was captured for me in perfect sharpness a couple of years back when I followed a 13 year old Neville back from the finish having an avid discussion with our club's oldest member (75+) about the light green they'd both just run - would their contemporaries have given each other the time of day in any other circumstances.
But I appreciate that that is probably an aspect which will appeal to everyone else EXCEPT the 20-30 year olds - and for them we have to find something else.

[awk]

.My own personal beef (and this is just me speaking) is that in a society which increasingly segregates the generations, orienteering allows all age groups to meet up with mutual respect and common ground. I DON'T WANT to be confined to a middle aged activity. I love mixing with all ages.

Actually Mrs H. I thoroughly agree with you. I think we just have different approaches to addressing it. My point about inclusivity being a weakness is that too many events try to be all things to all people, and whilst that's great sometimes (e.g. JK - a festival of orienteering), at other times it's to my mind inappropriate, not least because it is extremely demanding of resources (human and physical!). One has to be prepared to prioritise, otherwise by trying to be inclusive we are actually being exclusive by not providing properly for diverse needs.

This has been really driven home to me with teaching. In a class where there is a substantial range of needs, there are times when the children have had to learn that my time is committed to a particular group or individual, even though I'm providing for all.

I certainly don't want to be stuck with my age group - I don't even like the limitations of age group competition - and I wouldn't have gone into teaching either if I did!

BTW - I have also really appreciated the variety of comments from people who've joined in their 20's and 30's: very illuminating. Thank you!

[ian]

I think that targeting 20+ rather than the U18 is a very good idea as an new orienteer my self (M18), as it is very hard for a junior to get to events with out considerable parental support (I have non-orienteering parents myself) therefore by targeting the 20+ who are more likely to have transport (a car).

Thinking of how to do this I would suggest that most people have herd of orienteering, let alone know how to get involved, my point is that the sport need to be more well known about (gyms and universities would be my suggestion for possible targets) and also easier to begin (i.e. at events have it clear what to do to register and such alike). I would also point out that you can change format as much as you like but is no one knows it exists then it’s a pointless task.

[Guest]

There's a lot of talk about attracting new orienteers in the 20-30s age group - what about retaining those already there. I've been orienteering since the age of 14, competing at elite level for the last 17yrs, but since the inception of the UK cup I am seriously considering giving up the sport. It has destroyed National Events. It has split the sport into "competitive" (UK cup/FC cup) and "recreational" (everyone else). It has split elite events off from the mainstream so that elite orienteers are rarely seen by non-elite orienteers making elite seem a massive unattainable step for orienteers considering running up. It also creates difficulties for families where one runner is elite and tends to make it difficult to run at the same events as clubmates. The range of formats - short, sprint, medium, classic, night, mass start long, park , even bike-o is ridiculous - and if, like myself, you only want to compete at classic distance it is made extremely difficult for you to do so, most classic distance races start times being based on the previous day's positions. I still enjoy the sport when I'm actually out there, but struggle to find events where I can run a long, physically challenging course, with plenty of route choice over good terrain, and feel that I am basically excluded from BEOC (don't run enough UK cup races) and the JK (don't want to run the day 1 short race and have found extremely difficult to enter Sunday only, don't feel ready to move to 35L, and don't feel right about running 21L when I usually run elite)Like quite a few friends of a similar age I find myself drifting away from the sport. This is purely a personal view, which I know won't be shared by many, and I don't have any easy answers, but my feeling is that unless elite orienteering is brought back into the mainstream and aimed at a wider base of M/W21s (rather than as a preparation for international races for the top echelon) M/W 21/35s will not stay in the sport