orienteering in 20's and 30's

[SJ]

yeah we will look amazing

the running club mock us (ok, me) for wearing long socks though

[awk]

My question is ...
How can orienteering be made more attractive to people in there 20's and early 30's?
Any comments?

This is almost certainly the wrong forum for getting answers. A high proportion of 20-30 year olds perhaps, but almost all committed orienteers already. It's just like when tackling junior orienteering development: the answers we got from juniors coming in to the sport (and from those who had left) were very different from those currently active at regional/national level.

It would certainly be useful finding out what attracts the already committed to the sport, and what they would like, but to get an answer to your question, you'd need to talk to those who haven't taken the sport up yet (e.g. why do adventure racers not go orienteering, and what would encourage them to do so) and those who have given it up.

I suspect that the answers would be along the lines of atmosphere at events, sorts of competitions available (e.g. very elitist at 20-30 level), type and status of courses available, inappropriate (sometimes non-existent) club scene etc., difficulties in making progress. Trendy kit fairly low on list. Why? Because that's the sort of answers that we got when asking older juniors (17-20) outside mainstream orienteering.

But there again, I could be completely wrong, as this group is different, not least because pressures of family and work start to kick in bigtime. And I might be completely wrong because my view might be biased by being mid-40s (but cleanshaven!).

Out of interest, how successful is adventure racing - what sorts of numbers are we talking about?

[brooner]

Out of interest, how successful is adventure racing - what sorts of numbers are we talking about?

not sure about other races, last year the rat race in Edinburgh had over 110 teams of 3 (all paying about £80 a shot!!!) and this year they are aiming for almost triple that number. Bristol & Manchester looking like around 200 teams.

I think some other races, like the ace races have 200 odd perhaps.

I think what is perhaps the most impressive part of it is the levels of sponsorship the sport has managed to attract.

Also, if anyone is interested in entering the rat races this year (which i'd thoroughly recommend, even if its just doing the saturday night prologue in edinburgh and kicking some ass!) then get in touch with me and I can sort you out with some bonus goodies.

[Ernie_Wise]

The majority of people (around 20 years old) that I've spoken to often associate orienteering with going on hikes or a nice stroll around the country side. Never once have I spoken to a non-orienteer and heard a true description of 'competitive' orienteering. Some where along the line people are being given entirely the wrong impression about the sport (sport is another good word which is never associated with orienteering).

True, it is all about image (O suits and such) but more than that I feel that if you want to attract more 20 to 30's we need to sell the sport in terms of saying to people; “Look this is what you can become". You could describe it in terms of the 'David Beckham' or 'Jonny Wilkinson' effect. I know this is possibly a shallow thing to say (? and I’m sorry if it offends) but how many Kids start playing football because they saw the local pub team playing, the guys that are overweight, old with ill fitting or bad kit, so on so forth. The answer is none or very few, these kids look up to their elite athletes who look good in what they do. I think that if you want to recruit people in these age groups you need to exploit the image of our elite athletes. You need to sell the image of a slim Scandinavian sprinting through the forest, looking good and performing at the highest level. I honestly believe that this image would appeal to people in the 20 to 30 age range because as one of those people it appeals to me, it is what I want to aspire too.

Ok there are going to be people that this image won’t appeal too and this is an area that I feel is covered well already by compass sport and BOF. But I feel that not enough focus is put on advertising our elite athletes. As a 20 age range orienteer aspiring to the best I want too see loads of pictures, posters, regular leaflets, updates on elites home and aboard, stuff that really gets me fired up and motivated to orienteer, stuff that’s going to inspire me. These are the sorts of things that could attract a whole section of people in the 20 to 30 age range that would otherwise go to other sports with a better image.

What do people think or am I way off the mark?

Sorry if this isn’t very articulate, I’ve spent 14+ hours sat in front of a computer screen today fighting with JSP code.

[awk]

Those numbers look pretty good.

One of the questions that jumps to mind is how regularly are the individuals taking part in these races, and how many are there? Along with that is how accessible are these races to novices?

One of the reasons I ask is that I'm sure one of the issues in orienteering is the long hard learning curve: for even fit athletes coming in, it takes a relatively long time to get competitive, and not a lot is offered on the way other than random events.

In most sports, you would normally expect to do well at a local level before progressing on to regional and national levels. In others, mostly because they are relatively new, one might go straight in almost at a national level mainly because there is little localised structure, and everybody goes to all events (is this where adventure racing comes in??).

In orienteering, it can be almost as hard to do well locally (certainly courses can be pretty much as tough) with minuscule recognition, providing big barriers from the word go. On the other hand, the competitive focus at national level events is somewhat fuzzy (cf what Graeme said about L and S courses), and all too often not very appealing.

It goes back to my disagreeing with Mrs H. that the inclusivity of the sport was its strength - by trying to be all encompassing at all events, perhaps we're not really including everybody at all?

On the image front, I'm sure there's a lot of truth in what you say Ernie. I suspect that's partly a fault of the fact that orienteering is on the national curriculum, and taught by people who know nothing about the sport. My year 8 son has just been doing an orienteering module at school (he's actually been roped in to help with the teaching), and whilst it's been reasonably well taught as schools go, the only visual material that's been used is the Mike's Eye video which has that awful song: OK at primary but a disaster at secondary. It was apparently very embarrassing!

[fell]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/robbo97/eureka.jpg
Eureka Orienteers latest attempt, notice their choice of model.

[bendover]

Eureka Orienteers latest attempt, notice their choice of model.

yeah thats f****d. might as well give in now.

[Godders]

Eureka Orienteers latest attempt, notice their choice of model.

Good to see the old EUOC kit again

[PorkyFatBoy]

I suspect that most people who play sport in their this age range carried it through from school/uni. Differences between the footy/rugby and O can usually be found around the clubhouse bar. Club membership comes in two forms - playing/drinking or drinking only. The team nature of these sports makes it easier to be and to feel part of the club, even if you only shout from the touchlines.

This age range is also when people start to think about "settling down" with their partner (or finding one) and the forest isn't necessarily the easiest place to find someone. Easier down the pub, or clubbing with you friends. They also spend a lot of time working to earn cash to pay the mortgage, doing DIY, raising children etc. If they are at all concerned about their health, then they'll join a gym - the sanitised townies version of fitness.

The poor teaching of O in schools means that peoples perception (as Ernie Wise said) is not of sport, more likely the Ramblers Club, or of sadistic PE teachers making you do XC running. You'd have to be made to take up this sport is their conclusion.

As for pyjamas, I don't wear them although as Club Secretary I am reluctantly having to order some more as I could not convince the committee that there are better alternatives and we could also change the design too.

The beard stays. There is nothing wrong with them if they are short enough that you don't discover bits of your breakfast in them at lunchtime.

[FatBoy]

One thing that's come to mind sitting here as somebody who's mostly (well at least been once a year) orienteered from 7 to 30 is that kids have so much more things going on for them than adults do, and there's a lot happened in the last 10 or so years since I was a junior - meaning it's been a focus. What do we have now for juniors:

Regional Squads
Start Squad (new)
YBT (new)
Peter Palmer Relays (new)
JIRC (new 1989?)
National Curriculum (new)

You hit 21 and all change. So you're struggling for the first time in your life with actually having no time because of work, you're getting your first body niggles that won't go away, you're all of a sudden in a big age group and you have to start looking from the bottom of the results rather than the top to find your name, and despite that there's virtually no group competitions that get you out. How many adults dust their kit off once a year for the CSC to get royally beaten because they're unfit, but keep doing it anyway?

Perhaps with more team/club focused racing some people would come out more often, and it would generate more atmosphere with all the post race banter?

Why does adventure racing work? I would guess because it's mainly team based therefore good fun, and also people get talked into doing it to make up numbers.

[SJ]

Orienteering needs to be advertised in an appealing way - ie with images of young elites as mentioned before in places where people who want to get fit go to - ie running clubs, cross-country races, gyms.

How about a sprint orienteering picture for the clean gym-users and a photo of someone covered in mud jumping off a crag to appeal to the adventure racers?!

Maybe if emphasis were put on the fact that the sport isn't about what was taught at schools - many of the people I've spoken to who learnt it at school found it really boring.

I agree with what has been said about long easy courses - why not invite local running clubs to an event where they can try a red/purple/whatever else is long and easy - they might come back once they realise it's a scenic, interesting alternative to running around roads to get fit.

It would be great to see more of the trail racing/orienteering sort of event that took place over Christmas on Wimbledon Common. (To back up awk's comment that it's a long learning curve - it can get frustrating being able to run but not have the navigational skills to get very high up the results list - this was one event where runners actually felt like they were running and getting somewhere they should be!)

[ryeland of doom]

Adventure racing is enjoying the novelty factor right now.. We were there in the 1970s...

Unfortunately its inaccessable to many due to the sheer cost. We are not, a strength that should be exploited.

Some of the weaknesses expressed above could be strengths: We dont need loads of kit., big entry fees etc.. Thats why kids play football, a bit of ground and a ball... all they need.


If you aslk me our biggest problem is the pollution and abuse of the name of our sport by education etc.. As said before - its always presented as an earnest exercise in nature rambling, something that has to be endured on residential weeks etc.

I am always being told what orienteering is from folk who think its a mapreading exercise done at school. The idea its a competitive sport is lost on folk. (uncompetitive types like myself does not help) Urban races have a lot to offer publicity wise - shame the telly is not interested.

The use of the word orienteering to decribe boring non orienteering exercises imakes my blood boil.

I recently mapped and ran an introductory day at a school within a big park. I used a mass start, any order format, fitting into one PE lesson. The difference in enthusiasm there was when the pupils were told that it was a race! The non runner types were still happy to walk round, and the competitive types got stuck in and competed. A great time was had by all.

This was real orienteering on a real map on real terrain. Not a pair of hiking boots or OS map in sight.

Finally if we cannot get the W/M21s we need, all is not lost. This is orienteering, we have m/w75 classes... Many sports cannot be followed when the bits start to wear out.... Catch the retirees.... Longer introductry courses would be a start here. Not good for the image, true, but too many folk pack up sport altogether. Its not just children who are recruits to our wonderful sport.

[RJ]

SJ wrote:

Orienteering needs to be advertised in an appealing way - ie with images of young elites as mentioned before in places where people who want to get fit go to - ie running clubs, cross-country races, gyms.

BOF/Sophie have just sent out a great set of posters and flyers. BUT... advertising is in the realm of the clubs. That is where the energy needs to be and where the motivation to increase membership lies. Individual clubs need to generate a strategy and find another "volunteer" to put it into effect..... time after time after time. It is a long haul, but worthwhile. This should attract the M/W21s.
The other route for new members is by word of mouth. Most people come into the sport when introduced to it by a friend. All you 20's and 30's, bring along a friend this year.... and double the current numbers!

To attract people you need events to go to.... low key informal events... every week of the year. Travelling sixty+ miles to a Regional event is no good!!

And school orienteering is changing... BOF figures show 11k(?) participation figures last year. NOW, they have been orienteering properly!! Find a way to capture them into the club orienteering scene.

[Twitch]

Has anyone ever thought that sunday morning might be a turn off for 20 somethings. I'm at a university that doesn't have an o club and have made efforts to encourage students to give it a go. I've got some to come along on tuesday evenings, wednesday afternoons, and saturdays, but sunday mornings are a waste of time.
In my experience, students can be split into 2 groups on a sunday morning - those who get up for church, and those who don't get up at all. Neither group is likely to be persuaded to go for a run in the forest.
I would say that if orienteering wants to be treated like a sport, it should take place on a saturday. Having it on a sunday morning only adds to the image that its only for old people who fancy a stroll in the country.

[El]

I think the perception of orienteering in the minds of the general public is changing. A few years ago, back at school, anyone who I met and told that I was into orienteering came back with the classic "I did that at primary school in the playground as a treasure hunt. It was well boring."
More recently new people I tell about it have started saying "Oh I've heard of that - it sounds really cool, I wouldn't mind giving it a go".
I suspect this is a symptom of better, positive publicity - the change is happening, just slowly.