JK2007

[awk]

British Champs weekend: too big, too cumbersome, too many compromises. It needs a major rethink. I liked Peter Guillaume's idea of a clubs weekend (incorporating relays and Compass Sport Cup), and favour a major streamlining of the BOC to focus on what it should be about: finding the best in Britain, not being yet another largely unnecessary 'festival' of orienteering for all and sundry. (Those two ideas are not necessarily linked!).

[graeme]

favour a major streamlining of the BOC to focus on what it should be about: finding the best in Britain, not being yet another largely unnecessary 'festival' of orienteering for all and sundry.

It exists - it's called BEOC.

Graeme

[RJ]

Graeme wrote:

It exists - it's called BEOC.

The ""E"" is the key word there. Andrew has a point though.... it would be better to qualify for the BOC and only cater for the top 25% in each age class, that is, the gold standard competitors.

And there is a lot of merit in a club based weekend that has the CSC/T and a relay competition. Nice idea.

[graeme]

The ""E"" is the key word there.

Interesting you think that - I would have said the 20/21 was the key feature of BEOC.

And there is a lot of merit in a club based weekend that has the CSC/T and a relay competition. Nice idea.

Presumably abolishing CSC/T heats? Can't see many non-qualifiers travelling just to a relay.

Graeme

[RJ]

Might be a good idea to do away with the CSC/T heats. If the club is going to make a journey to a final somewhere in the UK, why not just for a single w/e. Have qualifier courses in the morning, with finals (A/B/C) in the afternoon. Then relays on the second day.

[graeme]

Might be a good idea to do away with the CSC/T heats. If the club is going to make a journey to a final somewhere in the UK, why not just for a single w/e.

This has often been a dilemma for us. Its hard to get the one or two members who happen to be the necessary age and sex this year to commit in February to a weekend away in September. Or to get anyone to commit to going with an incomplete team. The dilemma is that by even entering the heat, we might deprive a team who are keen to go of the chance.

Maybe clubs who qualify should be allowed to withdraw if they can't, in practice, take a sensible team to the final?

Graeme

Graeme

[Neil M37]

I like the idea of a combined CSCup/British relays weekend but it will need some thinking about. There were over 2000 competitors in last weeks CSCup matches (and the yorkshire heat would add another 500). OK so there wouldn't be so many people at a one-off final but it is still going to be a big mass-participation event with all the restrictions that imposes. And the mens blue course would have 500 competitors on it.

[Mrs H.]

I have always thought that the unconditional inclusivity of the British Championships to be one of the great strengths and attractions of the sport - i can't immediately think of another sport where this happens - it allows us all to fel like sporting superstars as we beast it down the run in with our friends shouting and cheering. I would be very much against BOC becoming selective in any regard - why bother when BEOC already caters for the elites - whether held in conjunction with BOC or not.

[NeilC]

At least as far as my kids are concerned BOC is the big one, the one at which most of their main rivals will be. Agree entirely with Mrs H. about inclusivity, as for streamlining...well we wouldn't like to see a separate junior champioships would we?

[mharky]

Briish Champions sounds a lot better to your local sports council, or newspaper, or school etc that, JK Champion...

[rocky]

unless you give it its full title... JK International.

from the murray strain school of application form filling in, 3 su awards, 3 honorable mentions, 2 eu colours and 3 eu blues

[awk]

At least as far as my kids are concerned BOC is the big one, the one at which most of their main rivals will be.

Actually, compared to the JK, the BOC is usually the 'small one', significantly smaller and less competitive in the junior classes.

Agree entirely with Mrs H. about inclusivity, as for streamlining...well we wouldn't like to see a separate junior champioships would we?

Quite happy to try it - it raised some hackles this year, but mostly because of unproven fear mongering that juniors would not be able to get to them. But that wasn't what I was talking about. After all, separate events may be rather the opposite of streamlining unless incorporated with other competitions. I had in mind something more along the lines of what Richard suggested: only A classes, and qualifying to get there.

Mrs H. may well see the inclusivity of the BOC as its strength - I used to too. I now see it as a fairly substantial weakness, and more of a sacred cow.

Quite a few sports have an inclusive national championships - the inclusion comes in that anybody can qualify to get there - the qualifiers are after all effectively an extension of the championship. I don't see the major compromises on courses and venues that regularly affect the BOC as being anything to boast about when supposedly putting on a national championship. Rather the reverse.

[graeme]

Funny thing about inclusivity - if you want more people to come it pays to look exclusive.

This certainly worked in the early years of BEOC - not only did the fraction of M21s choosing to run elite go UP when formal qualification races came in, but also the attendance at those races designated as qualifiers (UK cup) went UP, and those no longer designated as qualifiers (National event elite classes) went DOWN.

[Guest]

Trouble with qualifiers, when it's a family sport, you get the sitn where one /two members of a family might qualify and then the others have to provide transport somewhere and not get to run. Even I would want to run if I'd driven for 3 hours to take my child to a selective BOC. In fact I'd need to, there is a case for supporting your kids. We do it often at schools and YBT events but it would be nice to run. A weekend like the BSOC in East Anglia takes it out of you with the driving and standing around, whereas a little run is refreshing.

I don't think I'd realised exactly how far BSOC was the journey seemed to take forever


HOCOLITE

[El]

Tell me about it - lucky you only had to go there on one weekend. Try planning on the area based in Essex/Sheffield. It's 80 miles from my parents' house and it never ever took me less than 2 hours. I don't think improving transport routes in and out of North Norfolk is a big priority for anyone! [/quote]