Some advice for controllers, perhaps

[LukeW]

Don't collect in the last controls on a course half an hour before the course closing time. There may still be people out there who could finish before the course closes.

Yesterday, at Denny Lodge, that happened. I was one of the few people unable to complete their course. Unsurprisingly, I'm not exactly chuffed about it.

[Neil C]

No doubt if the orange squash had been too strong the controller would have got the blame.

Please remember that controllers are appointed to advise and assist the organising club - not to assume overall responsibility.

[gross2004]

Agree the controller is not there to take on overall responsibility but I reckon it is a function of the controller to give the 'ok' for the forest to be cleared.

I certainly wouldn't have any problems in clearing the early part of courses but the last few should be left until course closing time to be pulled.

[PorkyFatBoy]

With SI (and Emit?) you can see who started and who has finished and this can be checked before the controls are collected. If all have returned, then it's okay to collect - it's not that difficult! If I can do it, so can anyone else.

[Klebe]

No doubt if the orange squash had been too strong the controller would have got the blame.

Thats childish

I agree with Luke. We know who is still out at the end of an event, we also know which courses they are on. It makes total sense not to take in the final controls until either everybody is back or the course has closed.
I as organiser have always jointly agreed with the controller and planner when it is time to start fetching controls in - and sending people out to locate missing competitors.
I hope you got a refund Luke. Lets face it, if you shelled out a fiver in a shop for something and bits were missing you'd demand your money back straight way.

[Neil C]

Thats childish

Perhaps but based on the fact that I spent yesterday controlling a regional event (instead of supporting my children at the YBT) and was amazed at how many people came to me first with their observations rather than the planner or organiser. Particularly unfair when they were being complimentary about the courses.

I'm surprised more clubs don't read the check/start/finish units as a matter of course. Although this wouldn't have been straightforward yesterday with the finish and download several miles apart.

[Simon]

amazed at how many people came to me first with their observations rather than the planner or organiser.

Often I have found this to be a case of passing the comments on to part of the team that is not busy or whom I recognise. At events it is not always possible to pass comments on to the relevant person - for example I know several planners who like to watch see how the competitors tackle certain legs.

I'm surprised more clubs don't read the check/start/finish units as a matter of course. Although this wouldn't have been straightforward yesterday with the finish and download several miles apart.

It is not always relevant to read the check/start at a district event, since you expect that everyone that enters will run (though I have had some events where this was not the case). Distance should not be a problem to bringing the check/start box back, since generally this can happen in the time between the start closing and courses closing. Also reading the finish is only relevant if you are missing competitors and wish to check if they have finished but not downloaded.

[LukeW]

I did manage get a refund - all 2 quid of it - but it's still annoying to have driven 160 miles for nothing other than giving two people a lift there and back. And I'm sorry if my ignorant views about official's responsibilities have offended anyone. Perhaps all event officials can take note?

I did take a quick look on the BOF website but couldn't find any detailed info about official's responsibilities. Does anybody know the official (if you pardon the pun) position for sure?

[Simon]

I did take a quick look on the BOF website but couldn't find any detailed info about official's responsibilities. Does anybody know the official (if you pardon the pun) position for sure?

Well from where I am looking it is the controllers responsibilty. The controller is there is ensure a fair event for the competitors and if some people were not able to complete the course due to the removal of controls then this has not happened.

At the events I have been involved in it is generally the controller and planner who have made the decision between themseleves, having liased with the computer team to check that all people are back (or that all people on certain courses are back) and then the controls can be collected (or the controls in some areas/on some courses can be collected).

[awk]

But you need to be sure of the chain of decision making before blaming the controller (or somebody else). I've been a controller when control collecting started earlier - without any reference to any of the three main officials!

[Simon]

But you need to be sure of the chain of decision making before blaming the controller (or somebody else). I've been a controller when control collecting started earlier - without any reference to any of the three main officials!

I pointed out that it is the controllers responsiblity to ensure a fair event. This is not to say that the controller was the one to blame for the controls being collected early. However the pre-event planning of how and when controls are to be collected seems to have been at fault (and that would have been the responsiblity of the planner and controller).

[MarkC]

...and was amazed at how many people came to me first with their observations rather than the planner or organiser. Particularly unfair when they were being complimentary about the courses.

Unless you actually know them, it's not usually obvious who the main officials at an event are... looking at yesterday's details, I can't put faces to any of the names. I certainly enjoyed my courses (3 & 11), so please pass on my compliments to the planner

[Guest]

Thanks Mark - as the planner of the event your comments are much appreciated. I have to say that in this case Neil made a point of saying that we should not collect controls until after course closing time - not that we would have done as it happened, but sensible advice from a good controller is always to be welcomed - certainly I learnt some useful points for future events (?).

Dave K.

[Guest]

Couple of comments as someone who has on a number of occasions been in the position of deciding when to collect controls in...

1) Set a realistic course closing time.

2) The Planner is the person responsible for everything from start line to finish line, so they should be the person in charge of making the decision when, which, and by whom the controls should be collected in. Controller / finish team etc should also have an input in providing apropriate information on which to make an informed decision.

3)Only collect controls in when, either
a) All competitors on all courses that use the control are back, or
b) Course closing time has passed, or
c) When there is no chance of anyone left out on the course getting round the rest of the course before course closing time.

Options a) & b) guarantee no problems.

Option c) requires a bit of care in application, but with the following shouldn't be a problem. Liaise with the finish / download team to see who is still out on the course. In general there is usually someone around who knows how good that person is, which will let you judge how likely they are to get round. Try talking to the people waiting at the finish. That close to course closing they are only going to be there if they are waiting for one of the last few people out on the course. Ask late finishers on the same courses if they have seen anyone else out in the forest, and where abouts. This is also useful, so that you can judge if anyone still out is unreasonably overdue, so that search plans can be put into action e.g. An average orienteer with a late start on a long course could be out until course closing time. Someone on a yellow or orange shouldn't be, but it does happen. (e.g. At one of our events two juniors on an orange course who when found had only made it to control 1, ten minutes before course closing time.(I think they had spent more time talking than navigating!!))
All of the above information will let you make an informed decision on when to collect.
Also prior to the event have some idea of the likely order to collect the controls in. i.e. junior (white / yellow etc) controls first, with late controls on long courses last.