I like this

[Kitch]

Times today:

What a glorious contrast the two of them made, right from the start. There was Redgrave: sullen, charmless, problematic, a comprehensive school boy with a famous single O'level in woodwrk. How wonderfully mischievous and creative of fate to send him a grinning Etonian oaf as a partner in the coxless pair.

[eddie]

that is genuis some of the times sport writers can bring it out of the bag

along with H Winter but he's a telegraph man

[harry]

As opposed to Sue Mott or whatever her name is in the telegraph who i can't stand, she uses all these long words and ridiculous metaphors when in sports writing i think it's best to keep it simple.

that was genius. but Redgrave sometimes does have a certain charm. still use his "athletes games." people were hassling him to do something just after he'd won in...er Sydney.. either Atlanta or Sydney. he was just "we can do what we want, it's athletes games" in other words everything should be geared towards the needs of the athletes rather than the tv people.

[Kitch]

the article went on to say that being paired with Pinsent changed Redgrave substantially in the way he was able to relate, even to keep on to his 5th gold, suggesting that Redgrave may have consumed himself if Pinsent hadn't appeared to lighten him up

i.e.
Redgrave knew how to drive himself beyond his limits.
But without some banter he may not have lasted.

lesson kids
be dedicated, train harder than you can imagine
but
ENJOY.

('athletes games' Redgrave was getting bolloked by officials for rowing back down the course having won in Sydney - lap of honour. Disgraceful ! Not allowed don't you know !! Against the rules, what !)

[Mrs H.]

Redgrave knew how to drive himself beyond his limits.
But without some banter he may not have lasted.

Given his present chronic health problems (diabetes and colitis) the question must then be would he have given up sooner and spared himself the conditions or would he have carried on and suffered even more?

[mharky]

no, there is no question, its happened, and well done. we shouldn't hypothosise about what could have happened in the past. its happened, we learn from what HAS happened, and then hypothosise about what can happen in the future now we know this

[distracted]

didn't Redgrave say after his win in Atlanta:

"Anyone who sees me go anywhere near a boat again, ever, you've got my permission to shoot me."

and a year later he announced his intention to go for a fifth gold...

anyway - Pinsent's set to "retire" apparently, which I guess is what prompted the original article. If he persuaded Redgrave to carry on, why doesn't he? Or does he not want to upstage Redgrave's achievement. if you're still good enough, have the passion and desire for success, and enjoy what you're doing, why stop?

[Mrs H.]

I think the answer to that - if Mharky will allow me to conjecture - is that he knows he wont win a fifth gold. Remember Redgrave had Pinsent to back him up - he could'nt have done it without him - Pinsent hasn't got anyone of the same callibre. I think Pinsent is proabaly the better and stronger rower of the two, physically he seems to be holding out better. I don't think there is any question of not wanting to upstage Redgrave - afterall he would only be equalling his achievement which would be justified - but to try and fail would be really bad news - better to leave the question hanging in the air.

[Klebe]

I don't think there is any question of not wanting to upstage Redgrave - afterall he would only be equalling his achievement which would be justified - but to try and fail would be really bad news - better to leave the question hanging in the air.

Yes I was pondering the same thing this morning on the way into work. I came to a different conclusion. These guys are not driven by the fear of failure, they are driven by the will to win. I do not for one minute believe Pinsent would duck out of the challenge of a fifth medal based on fear of being always known as second best to Redgrave. (Technically I suppose he will always be just that, having a mere 4 golds to Redgraves 5, so he has nothing to lose at all in the Pinsent v Redgrave stakes).
Pinsent is a winner who will push himself to the absolute limit, I suspect he has concluded that he will not, or may not be as strong in four years time and now is the time to retire gracefully and pass the oar onto someone else. This is his decision about himself and I doubt if he considered third parties when making it.

[Copepod]

Sport with diabetes is difficult, but at least Steve Redgrave always knew exactly how much energy he would expend in a rowing event, unlike at the beginning of an orienteering course - lots of sweets in pockets helps!

[mharky]

my comment had nothing to do 3with rowing, it was more a point of why the hell think about what if the past wasa diffferent, its makes no differennce what you come up with, what happened happened, now go training.

[gross2004]

Sport with diabetes is difficult

Any knowledge floating about on the subject of diabetes & elite endurance sport (orienteering)? Always got my eye open for the subject.

[Copepod]

To gross2004: I can supply some information / advice, by PM. Or, look at the MAD website (Mountains for Active Diabetics) http://www.mountain-mad.org