surely this is obvious, but quality over quantity all the time. this event yesterday sounds bad, the ouoc sprint sounds good. id rather do 3k of great o than 10k of boredom any day (like i could do 10k!). are these people who have critisised the same folk who critissise sprint o in general?
i think 8 quid is fine. its a different event, a (sort of ) one off, quality tricky o in an area u would never normally get to run on, in visually nice oxford. with (surely) lots of banter, lots of public milling about, a good advert for the sport, interest from overseas and around the country cos of the world cup, need i go on...?)
Planning standards
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
Save yourself some money - pre-enter before the closing date. Also gives the organising club fewer headaches and wasted costs in trying to pre guess how many extra maps etc are needed.
Wharncliffe results were up on the web this morning - shame they didn't get them up last night and the shameless self promotion even before they had got the results up really p*ssed me off
On another vein - stuck in a download queue for 20 minutes after the computers crashed - anyone know what the problem was?? Seems to be happening far too frequently for my liking.
Planner / Controller bashing. Despite guidelines being set down for TD etc this is a sport run by amateur volunteers from a usually hard pressed limited club membership who juggle work demands with the demands of the sport.
While we are going to rely on individual members goodwill for planning and controlling then we are always likely to get the problms awk has commented on. It would be interesting to find out if there is a general concensus on the quality of courses across the board or was this just one course that didn't live up to its standards.
Thought W45L course 5 was OK.
Wharncliffe results were up on the web this morning - shame they didn't get them up last night and the shameless self promotion even before they had got the results up really p*ssed me off
On another vein - stuck in a download queue for 20 minutes after the computers crashed - anyone know what the problem was?? Seems to be happening far too frequently for my liking.
Planner / Controller bashing. Despite guidelines being set down for TD etc this is a sport run by amateur volunteers from a usually hard pressed limited club membership who juggle work demands with the demands of the sport.
While we are going to rely on individual members goodwill for planning and controlling then we are always likely to get the problms awk has commented on. It would be interesting to find out if there is a general concensus on the quality of courses across the board or was this just one course that didn't live up to its standards.
Thought W45L course 5 was OK.
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Klebe - blue
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Ha ha ha - you don't fool meKlebe wrote:Thought W45L course 5 was OK.

They also don't seem to have put the mis-punches on the splits - which would be interesting at least (and something to look at as Nev managed to mis-punch on the penultimate control after all my arrangements to get him a lift there

Yes we were also tickled by SYO's self-congratulations - I guess they'd caught wind of the Awk blast and were being a bit defensive!
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Mrs H. - nope godmother
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I think that there were far far more EODs than expected and the download team spent a huge ammount of time trying desparatley to enter all the results into the compters before ppl finished. This meant that were quite a lot of corrections that were not made immeadtley so I think a lot of the mispunches were put down to running the wrong course? Not sure.
On a different issue, what do people think about allocating start blocks rather than start times at badge/regional events?
If these events are selection races?
Pros: easier on the organisers and less pressure to get to the start - many clubs have an informal start system anyway, the twin peaks event certainly did.
Cons: some of the juniors have mentioned that others deliberatly started only a minute or two after them to gain an advantage - I don't know how much it helped but it may want discussing
On a different issue, what do people think about allocating start blocks rather than start times at badge/regional events?
If these events are selection races?
Pros: easier on the organisers and less pressure to get to the start - many clubs have an informal start system anyway, the twin peaks event certainly did.
Cons: some of the juniors have mentioned that others deliberatly started only a minute or two after them to gain an advantage - I don't know how much it helped but it may want discussing
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I think it's a good system if 3min/4min start intervals are maintained between runners. I'm sick of colour codeds where you go off the second maps are free to mark up and there's just a huge stream of people going round the course. Otherwise the flexibility is very useful.
Will? We've got proper fire now!
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Becks - god
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Load of B******s
If you want a competition you really should have specific predetermined start times. The turn up & go system is great for non-competitive classes etc etc...... I would certainly not be happy to see the open / elite classes given free starts at meaningful competitions... it's ok for training / colour coded or for M/W 35 upwards...............

- gross2004
i think gross is right really. i know that its more hassle for organisers etc, but if u want to put on a serious competition it needs to be done properly. im not sure that the over 35s would agree that they deserve different treatment from the under 35s though.
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samsonite - class clown
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I enjoyed course 5 at Wharncliffe too, although the last 4/5 controls were more running (if you had anything left) than orienteering. Good to get a longer course than normal, but gap down to the S courses did seem out of proportion (especially if they were barely above orange standard)
They did seem to be getting huge numbers of EODs, which included me; not sure if this can be speeded up by having more people/computers on EOD data entry. Be interested to hear what the organisers think about that in retrospect.
I had no problems with the start time blocks, but sounds as though some policing of juniors would have been good idea, since it was selection race, and someone is clearly teaching them the fine art of gamesmanship; maybe selectors have to take order of starting into account when they look at results But is this info readily available?
They did seem to be getting huge numbers of EODs, which included me; not sure if this can be speeded up by having more people/computers on EOD data entry. Be interested to hear what the organisers think about that in retrospect.
I had no problems with the start time blocks, but sounds as though some policing of juniors would have been good idea, since it was selection race, and someone is clearly teaching them the fine art of gamesmanship; maybe selectors have to take order of starting into account when they look at results But is this info readily available?
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Wharncliffe is a horrible hell-hole and should never be used for orienteering. Having said that M35L was ok but not great. There is no excuse for providing an orange standard course when the guidelines say TD5. Either the planner and controller have no idea about the guidelines or have no idea what TD5 means. And I like to be given a start time to aim for - it helps me to prepare.
Just read Gross's post - absolutley agree. If it is a selection race then start times have to be allocated properly. What was it a selection race for? Were the organisers even aware of it?
Just read Gross's post - absolutley agree. If it is a selection race then start times have to be allocated properly. What was it a selection race for? Were the organisers even aware of it?
Last edited by Neil M35 on Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Neil M35
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Mrs H. wrote: Ha ha ha - you don't fool me
Ahh so sharp for a Monday morning

I like the idea of start blocks, makes for a much more relaxed start. That traffic hold up on the motorway is no longer such a big issue.
Yes the system can be abused by youngsters engineering their starts to suit competitors in front or behind them. I did notice some of the older girls jointly, and sensibly, making sure that adequate gaps were kept between them. If the start times had been prescribed I wonder whether more than 1 minute intervals between runners competing for selection would have been maintained anyway. It would then be more of a lottery as to who may be in a position to help a fellow rival.
It is difficult to know where to draw the line, if we say that selection races such as Sunday can have block starts do we then also allow for FCC events to operate a block start system?
Another problem with the block start system is when the queue stretches for 10 or more competitors. Conventionally on a cold day we can keep jogging and moving to prevent getting chilled right up until the 3 minute call up. Standing almost motionless for 10 or more minutes can soon cause many competitors to become quite cold.
- Guest
Noticed on Junior Forum someone saying they were turned away from there class, another commeted you shouldn't be turned away from a selection race:) That's another load of B******s
If it's a selection race & you turn up to EOD then you're not very serious about things are you? Can't have it both ways:)

- gross2004
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Klebe - blue
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Gross is right, you have to have a start list.
On the subject of the oxford race..
I think the entry fee you suggested is fine too, especially if there is stuff like access to showers which i guess could be possible to organise thru' a uni sports facility.
Also with all this in mind, have you tried getting sponsors? Could cut cost if you approached some local companies the right way.
I think the whole concept for the event is brilliant, in terms of advert for the sport, if it's done right. Not if it's hidden away. When we had a sprint race at battersea park (2000?) there were also lots of public milling about but none of them even knew the event was taking place. It wasn't marketed at all and start/finish and quiet commentary were hidden away in the corner of the park. Actually I've since learnt that the only way they could get permission to have the event, that time around, was if they didn't cause a stir, surely defeating the whole point of having it in Battersea Park, might as well have had a sprint race elsewhere on a more interesting area. Which would have been more interesting for us athletes as the exposure wasn't there anyway.
This time with it being the World Cup sprint race in Battersea Park hopefully it will get some exposure, but I reckon the Oxford Race can do equally well if done properly.
On the subject of the oxford race..
its a different event, a (sort of ) one off, quality tricky o in an area u would never normally get to run on, in visually nice oxford. with (surely) lots of banter, lots of public milling about, a good advert for the sport, interest from overseas and around the country cos of the world cup, need i go on...?)
I think the entry fee you suggested is fine too, especially if there is stuff like access to showers which i guess could be possible to organise thru' a uni sports facility.
Also with all this in mind, have you tried getting sponsors? Could cut cost if you approached some local companies the right way.
I think the whole concept for the event is brilliant, in terms of advert for the sport, if it's done right. Not if it's hidden away. When we had a sprint race at battersea park (2000?) there were also lots of public milling about but none of them even knew the event was taking place. It wasn't marketed at all and start/finish and quiet commentary were hidden away in the corner of the park. Actually I've since learnt that the only way they could get permission to have the event, that time around, was if they didn't cause a stir, surely defeating the whole point of having it in Battersea Park, might as well have had a sprint race elsewhere on a more interesting area. Which would have been more interesting for us athletes as the exposure wasn't there anyway.
This time with it being the World Cup sprint race in Battersea Park hopefully it will get some exposure, but I reckon the Oxford Race can do equally well if done properly.
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