Junior Badge Scheme

[Peter B]

Training depends on coaching

I disagree. In some cases it is but in most others, generally 16/18+ it is down to the individual to provide thier own training for the majority, (with the assitance of the coach) and not totally relying on the coaching, thus improve.

[Neil M35]

I agree for anybody with experience but we are talking about people with little experience moving up from bronze to silver to gold - and by coaching I don't mean somebody standing there shouting at you, I mean some guidance on how to train and maybe the setting out of the odd training course. Perhaps I should have said 'Training depends on knowing how to train'

[Guest]

Maybe the gold silver etc badges are not an 'incentive' in some peoples eyes, but they certainly represent a 'marker' for juniors.

A junior striving to achieve will look at his/her positioning on the day - 'was I first/ second etc.' and will automatically do his/her best. Subject to screwing up a control or two. Which is where splits and win splits graphs really come into play for assessing the individuals performance with or without the help of a coach.

It is not uncommon to have a big fish in a little pond who regularly does very well at their local events, but finds themself as a little fish in a big pond when they compete at the badge events and above. The badge scheme then gives them the incentive to compete to a level where they can achieve bronze, then silver and above.
All results will always depend on who turns up for an event, you can only beat those that turn up.
As far as prizes go, yes they are brilliant to receive and the juniors like to take something home, but there is the added problem of kids having to hang around at events just waiting for the last person to finish, maybe then finding they haven't won anything anyway, the usual time delay in presenting any prizes, and the situation where if X turns up then he or she is going to win the prize anyway so what the hell why try too hard. With the badge scheme you may not get the gold badge but you may achieve a silver badge compared to the usual bronze you have been getting. The incentive then lies in maintaining your new standard and striving to get up to gold standard.
I have only once achieved a gold standard, came close a few times, but that standard still remains a goal and an incentive.

[Guy]

the badge scheme is good but i think it should be done on a average so if normal winners doe not do as well then this brings the average time up meaning that the difficulty of a course is shown and reflected in the scores rather than allowing the winner to be the only thing that matters.

This has been done before with weighted averages but because the good runners affected the points so heavily if they had a bad run they would just retire rather than dish out easy points for the other course runners.

Bad sportsmanship but hey their choice.

[lilywhite]

As far as prizes go, yes they are brilliant to receive and the juniors like to take something home, but there is the added problem of kids having to hang around at events just waiting for the last person to finish, maybe then finding they haven't won anything anyway

Knew this would come up. This will always be a problem in British orienteering because the general attitude is "turn up, get changed in your car, go to the start, run, look at the results, eat your lunch in your car, go home". If we had club tents in assembly areas on the finish run-in as the norm - like it is for even low-key events in abroad - and shorter start blocks etc. etc. then there wouldn't be a problem. But this is a whole new argument...

[ruth]

i think we should keep the badge scheme and introduce prizes as well, so that all juniors at any level can have something to aim for. rubbish novelty prizes are much better than those mugs that you always seem to get at british events! on tour we went to a relay in sweden which was only for juniors where we came 2nd, there was a whole table full of prizes where you pick your own..unfortunately being the oldest age class and so the last prize giving we got left with the choice of macaroni cheese, a candle or some really horrible tracksuits! but it was good anyway and much better than a mug!

[rob f]

a table of tat .

intresting description gaz, i suppose you mean the swedish star wars books - wish i'd won the bog roll!

[rob f]

jedi you are, ya

[Rookie]

Gold badges from badge (sorry "regional") events are a bit pointless now. I got mine sent out automatically for JM5 some time last year but I got that JM5m - I'll be running JM5l for the next 3 years so what have I got to aim at? I could have got gold at M18 and M20 but thats being scrapped now (i'd only be interested in championship anyway)

What is important is making sure i keep gold standard so i stay in NWJS (this won't be a problem for the smaller squads who'll take anybody with a pair of o shoes ).

I think giving badges for colour ... "district" events is a waste of time - they're meant to be low key and not highly competitive - if this is meant to be an incentive for new juniors we should encourage them to go the regional or national events.

WE do need prizes though - out in norway with NWJS a low key middle distance race (on the same day as nor champs) had prizes - OK they were naff but they still had them (knives, chopping boards and spoons - made of wood though!)

[Mrs H.]

I've been thinking for some time now that the attainment of 3 championship standards in a year at junior level should actually mean something - by which i mean be a ticket to some higher level training. I've already said elsewhere that i think a sub 16 start squad is a total waste of time and resources. I would prefer the net to be cast wider at the younger end of the scale - kids progress at such varied rates both physically and mentally. If all MW14s who attaned champs standard at 3 national events were kept in the loop by offering them all summer camps and some weekend coaching (and of course a championship standard tracksuit) we might not lose so many to other sports later on. It also removes the cult of reputation from the start Squad. Any kid who tries/trains hard enough - and has the necessary family/club support ( and they are going to need all of those to succeed) can obtain championship standard. you can't build a pyramid very tall if you don't have a broad base.

[gross2004]

Agree... and also about start squad.

PS Marten Bostrom ran 29 mins for 10km in Sweden tonight... never saw it but assume it's orienteering Marten B. Maybe Dids was at landskamp & can confirm?

[Guest]

Hear!hear! but no-one listens..

[Mrs H.]

Well everyone knows It's against BOF regulations to listen - particularly to me - but with a bit of luck someone will think it up for themselves in a few months and take the credit:wink: BOF are on a mighty mission to attract new members - they don't actually seem to care much about retaining the ones they've got - particularly the older juniors and younger adults - they are only interested in them if they have medal potential

Is this a first Gross and me agreeing on something ?:shock:

[Guest]

Agree with Mrs H particulaly on the older juniors front. Got some 20s fairly new to the sport in our club, can't run in Peter Palmer's too old, if they run in the Harvester they are handicapped out of it unless they can get in junior team. Not included in the JM5 etc system, if they run M20 will probably be either the only ones in it or completely thrashed. They have the potential to be good, but need to see that for themselves, the FCC is way out their league at the moment.

The 20s appear to be neither juniors or seniors, youngsters entering the sport at their universities are generally in this age group, they need some encouragment if they are to continue. They may have medal potential just not yet, if they stay in the sport they could be planners, mappers or organisers in the future, medals or no medals we need them.

[Neil Crickmore]

Not allowing M/W20s at the PP is perhaps unfortunate but am I missing something concerning the other competitions?

Yvette Baker Trophy: novice M/W20s can run orange up

Harvester: Many clubs enter teams in the B-race for experience/fun even though they are over handicap. Great atmosphere for M/W 20s

CompassSport Cup: W20s at least are usually competitive

Regional Events: Isn't the whole point that novice juniors (M/W20-) run according to ability? Why are they "not included"?

Regional Leagues: In many of these M/W20s can score points however badly they may.

FCC: something to aspire to?

Surely the best way to encourage this age group is to put on events that particularly suit them. BOF management doesn't dicate to clubs what events they should organise. Clubs should be proactive and then feedback examples of good practice to regional development officers.