Accessing events by public transport

[Len]

Ashridge

I could do the same start train, but head south from York on the 0858, arriving King's Cross 1050.

1124 from Euston to Berkhampstead, arrives 1156
3.6km to assembly, then 750m to start
All a little tight with last start 12:30

Ickworth

Same London train, change at Peterboro 1002 to 1019
Ely 1057 to 1103
Cambridge 1120 to 1145
Arrive Bury St Edmunds 1224 - TOO LATE

Rannderdale - best I could do is to could get to Keswick for c.1400 or go day before. Although bus service doesn't start until 31 March.
Eryri - looks impossible, even if the afternoon. Day before as mentioned above.
Devon - would need to head down the day before

[Arnold]

While I admire the enthusiasm for long trips (eg York > Ashridge) surely the majority use-case is for <2 hours each way from the 'standard' catchment area for the event - excluding multidays.

So from this little exercise it sounds like (almost) all of these events can be done by public transport with a bit of imagination. It just needs publicising better.

[rf_fozzy]

- why isn't there a "JK Bus" which say runs say Glasgow --> Edinburgh --> Newcastle --> Sheffield and back

Above my paygrade to suggest why idea is not being implemented (although it would a be a significant amount of work on top of everything else for the organisers - of which I am one for this year - on top of everything else for the weekend - would need to be something outside of the event structure).

But I will point out that the weekend finishes in Leeds! - not Sheffield (and was originally going to finish in Barnsley).

Please all come to the relays. It's going to be good.

And if anyone wants any further public transport information for them, I'm happy to consider anything else I can include!

[SeanC]

Interesting replies.

It seems to me the two things organisers could easily do to encourage public transport use are:
a) put some information about transport on the flier
b) extend the start times into the afternoon (except perhaps in Dec/Jan when the days are too short) or maybe just move the start times 1 hour later Feb - Nov?

Speaking personally as a car driver... I would consider public transport to events more, but am put off with long walks to the event and buses. Trains are easy. Buses are harder to find information about and I think more unpredictable.

The other thing that puts me off is that on a cold and wet day, after a run, instead of climbing into a warm dry car to change, via public transport there is a long, cold wet trudge to the bus stop and then onwards. Or is this part of the challenge? At least you'll get a seat to yourself on the way home I guess

I wonder if it would work if orienteers with cars got into the habit of giving lifts to people arriving by train? That would skip the challenging or non-existent bus journey and/or long walk to the event and would mean the last start time could be earlier. Plus there would be somewhere dry to change afterwards. Racesignup has a request a car share option so maybe that could be extended to request a lift from a station?

I also think people arriving by public transport - or perhaps people offering lifts to people arriving by public transport - should be given a discount on the entry fee to reward the reduced environmental impact and need for the organiser to find a big car park.

I think orienteering from the perspective of those going via public transport might be an interesting and helpful CompassSport article if anyone who regularly travels to orienteering by public transport was interested?

[DM]

Today’s excellent event at Llechweddgain would not have happened if the organisers had felt it necessary to have a public transport option to get there. I agree we need to attract more younger people and no car owners, but if we have that as the sole objective we’ll end up running on inferior areas (round parks in towns for example). If that happens, the sport will lose participants who want to get out to the wilder, remoter areas, like today which was virtually path free.
Getting there took about the same time as it would to Ambleside from Manchester, but with much less traffic.
Good to see Eryri putting on 2 great events this weekend, hopefully more of the same to come.

[Scott]

Today’s excellent event at Llechweddgain would not have happened if the organisers had felt it necessary to have a public transport option to get there.

Except that - see above - there was a bus stop with a Sunday service, connecting to a train station, the same walking distance from the starts as the car parking field. If I'd spotted that sooner than last week, I would have considered going, particularly as I already happened to be in the vicinity of Chester on Saturday morning. As it was, I'd written it off a long time ago on the basis that I didn't fancy the long drive back to Cumbria by myself on the Sunday afternoon. It's not just the car-free who might prefer a public transport option!

[MChub]

I don't own a car, but I am certainly not in favour of not holding events at all if they cannot be accessed by public transport. If I really want to be at an event, I can usually find someone to give me a lift or travel a day earlier (or take my bike on the train and cycle, as I did quite often in the past). That is definitely preferable to no event at all. But there are a lot of small things that can be done that have been mentioned in this thread (like publishing the location of the assembly and not just the car park - or sometimes just an intermediate point on the route to the car park, as happened at last year's JK middle/long) that would make life easier, and some things that may be a bit harder, but still doable. If you decide that your club does not have enough volunteers to extend the start times, fair enough, but at least consider it.

A CompassSport article sounds like a good idea. I don't think I'd do a good job myself, but if someone else wants to write it, it will be appreciated.

By the way, I was planning my trip to the British Middles and found that Faygate is mentioned as the nearest rail station, but trains are not running that weekend and replacement buses are not stopping at Faygate, so that option does not exist. Which is another point - if you provide public transport directions, that's great, but please make sure they are up to date.

[DM]

Scott,
As you say, there is a bus service, the T2, that runs on the A 487. If you were staying in Caernarfon or Bangor overnight the first bus would get you to the starts on the Sunday morning.
Coming from further afield (Chester or Stockport) by train to Bangor and then using the T2, looks to be more of a challenge. The first trains from both places get you to Bangor in time for the third T2 bus, which gets you to the Bronaber bus stop approx 1440. Unless I've missed something here this doesn't work, unless you stay somewhere overnight (most likely with the cost).
There were a number of people who cycled there which was good to see.

[SeanC]

I put the Welsh Championships on the list of Sunday events to consider, but it's not really fair to compare with the others since I think it was promoted as a 2 day event, so its realistic to expect people to travel up on the Saturday and stay over Saturday night, so changing the public transport challenge somewhat.

I was very impressed by the Lewis Coast and Islands event where there was a bus to every event. As a lazy car owner, having to get a bus from the car park to the start is normally a minus point as it's extra time... but in this case it was win win. Car drivers won because we got to go to lots of great orienteering areas that don't have a nearby car park for 100 cars, and those without cars had a bus option from the main 'town' for accommodation and connecting public transport. The buses were frequent and the journeys short.

My own club has an event at Eggridge Woods, darkest Kent this Thursday, first time used for 30 years. Probably the poor car parking options are part of the reason for that. Though as it's a small event, cars are fitting in a pub car park.

The organiser is being frank about public transport on the flier... but feel free to take up the offer

"Not good. Contact the Organiser if you require a lift"

[Atomic]

- why isn't there a "JK Bus" which say runs say Glasgow --> Edinburgh --> Newcastle --> Sheffield and back

Above my paygrade to suggest why idea is not being implemented (although it would a be a significant amount of work on top of everything else for the organisers - of which I am one for this year - on top of everything else for the weekend - would need to be something outside of the event structure).

Yes I guess it might be a question for Regional Associations to consider - then it just need JK organiser to coordinate with these people so there are clear drop off / turning areas etc.

[Atomic]

Except that - see above - there was a bus stop with a Sunday service, connecting to a train station, the same walking distance from the starts as the car parking field. If I'd spotted that sooner than last week, I would have considered going, particularly as I already happened to be in the vicinity of Chester on Saturday morning. As it was, I'd written it off a long time ago on the basis that I didn't fancy the long drive back to Cumbria by myself on the Sunday afternoon. It's not just the car-free who might prefer a public transport option!

In general the sport is pretty rubbish at promoting events never mind including details like this - its just assumed that people will work it all out once the final details are published (perhaps 2 days before). Probably fine in you've done the same event 10 times before but hardly welcoming to outsiders. I've even had major events where my start time is not announced until <48h before... how can you plan those circumstances.

[Len]

I don't think (or rather hope) that anyone is suggesting only areas with public transport are used, rather that where it is an option, that is at least made clear.

This hopefully applies to most if not all, urban events, so I took a look at the next 2 UKULs...

WIM, Gillingham, 8th March
Nothing on public transport. Assume you can take the most direct route from the railway station to car park 1 to follow the tapes to assembly? Nice afternoon start times though!

CUOC, Trumpington sprints, 22nd March
Trumpington is ~5km from Cambridge Train Station and accessible by bus to Trumpington Park and Ride.
Which bus from the station? How often, or rather how long should you allow?
Google maps says it is actually only a 2.3mi walk, which I would consider a reasonable warm up. Do I pass through the competition area though?! Or Great Shelford is a 2.2mi walk.

In both instances there's more working out to be done than if you were driving!

[oo_wrong_way]

If you are travelling part of the way by public transport and just need a lift for the last leg, put in the postcode for the end of your train or bus journey.

[Scott]

As you say, there is a bus service, the T2, that runs on the A 487. If you were staying in Caernarfon or Bangor overnight the first bus would get you to the starts on the Sunday morning.
Coming from further afield (Chester or Stockport) by train to Bangor and then using the T2, looks to be more of a challenge. The first trains from both places get you to Bangor in time for the third T2 bus, which gets you to the Bronaber bus stop approx 1440. Unless I've missed something here this doesn't work, unless you stay somewhere overnight (most likely with the cost).

Yes - if I had gone, it would have been to do both days of the double-header with an overnight on Saturday night in Machynlleth, which would have been easy to reach by bus from Saturday's event, as well as a sensible place to start the bus journey on Sunday. I agree that the day trip on the Sunday by public transport only works if you're starting from somewhere relatively local (but - who knows - someone else might have been).

[sborrill]

CUOC, Trumpington sprints, 22nd March
Trumpington is ~5km from Cambridge Train Station and accessible by bus to Trumpington Park and Ride.
Which bus from the station? How often, or rather how long should you allow?
Google maps says it is actually only a 2.3mi walk, which I would consider a reasonable warm up. Do I pass through the competition area though?! Or Great Shelford is a 2.2mi walk.

This one is more a case of overthinking it coupled with an insufficiently robust description. Trumpington P&R is actually the main car parking for the event which is stated in the paragraph above public transport. I don't know why the distance from the station to the P&R is deemed relevant. There are buses every 9 minutes. The bus is the one that says Trumpingtion Park and Ride on its destination board (the busway A).