Scottish Champs, Oban

[Big Jon]

A thank you to all organisers, planners, controllers and helpers for a great Scottish Champs at Creag Mhic and Inver Awe last weekend.
Superb areas, tough running (in places), little undergrowth and very few midges, plus sunshine.
A cracking weekend in a superb part of the world. Plus the Waverley was in Oban harbour so some heritage bonus as well

[graeme]

It was wonderful and an hour in the sunshine was perfect for me. I'm a little mystified why M21E was so short - we had 15km when BOC was there. 10.7km seemed very short, as did 71mins winning time.

[Homer]

Yes, always a pleasure to run at Creag Mhic. I too was a little mystified at the short Elite course. I definitely wasn't complaining though

I find it a little sad that the Scottish Champs doesn't attract a larger field. It's meant to be the most prestigious event in Scotland (outside maybe the S5D). The fact that it's held on an (English) Bank Holiday weekend and generally clashes with something big(ish) in England can't help.
What I'd like to see is a Scottish Champs weekend on the lines of the Irish Champs:
Friday evening Sprint, Saturday Middle, Sunday Long and Monday Relay. If the Irish can manage it, surely the Scots could too? It would be a very attractive weekend to lots from all over the UK. Just a thought...

[Atomic]

I find it a little sad that the Scottish Champs doesn't attract a larger field. It's meant to be the most prestigious event in Scotland (outside maybe the S5D).

I often wonder if logistics for an event in the middle of nowhere get in the way. It was a 3hr drive for us, and with two events the need to find accom, which makes all the argument about cost of entries totally irrelevant. I do wonder if an ambitious organiser would get more traction (and a lot more headaches) with an event that included accom and transport (from some big city park and ride facility) as part of a package.

The fact that it's held on an (English) Bank Holiday weekend and generally clashes with something big(ish) in England can't help.

I'd have thought the BH would actually help - more likely for someone from far away to travel? I noticed there were a lot of "non-O" events on too - Edinburgh Marathon, Jura Fell Race etc - which even if they don't take out lots of orienteers might take out family members that make a trip harder?

What I'd like to see is a Scottish Champs weekend on the lines of the Irish Champs:
Friday evening Sprint, Saturday Middle, Sunday Long and Monday Relay. If the Irish can manage it, surely the Scots could too? It would be a very attractive weekend to lots from all over the UK. Just a thought...

I think that could be a really successful format. I think one of the challenges is, logically those would all be in one "area" and that will create a lot of pressure on one or two clubs. Also locations that could support all 4 are probably finite and so some clubs may never get visited. BUT executing something like that would certainly help Scottish Orienteers understand what SOA are doing for their part of the membership fee and large event levies.

[Gross]

Gramme.... it was 15 k coz I was planner

[SeanC]

Down in the remote south I've never heard anyone talk about the Scottish Champs. Maybe a bit more marketing might help? Is it always on the spring bank holiday weekend?

I agree with Atomic's sentiments in that it's a long way from down south, but the fact that it's a bank holiday weekend does help. But basically from the far south it's a 2 day journey to somewhere like Oban, which makes it hard to make the long event on the Saturday. Relays can also be tricky if there aren't many from your club going.

Some suggestions to get more from down south to go.

1. Instead of Saturday/Sunday, why not do Sunday/bank holiday monday?
or
2. A three day weekend relay/long/middle, expect the southerners to skip the relay.
3. If there was coaching/training in the days after the event this might be attractive to ambitious/new orienteers from down south, and to be honest anyone from the flatlands who want to remind themselves what those funny brown lines mean. This also gives an excuse to promote the weekend and would be useful for development.
4. Does it need some branding to say it's a weekend eg. "Scottish Championships Weekend"

Finally, with England offered SINS or Tamar Triple maybe it doesn't matter and it would be better to stick to what works just for Scots? Of course competitors would benefit from choice.

[Snail]

Tamar Triple is no more , so unless another region jumps in to offer something it is now just a choice of SINS (in odd years) or the Scottish Champs that weekend.

[Davy]

We owe a big "thank you" to TO'BEM for busting a gut to make sure that the relays happened at all.

I was one of the folk on the gate with the money bucket. I was impressed by how cheerful and cooperative everybody was. We had three cases of "I only have a credit card, I don't carry cash anymore". It's only a quid, and that was forewarned in the notes. My colleague said "OK, chuck your card in the bucket and we will post it back to you."

We had one report of an adder in the car park, which made itself scarce as fast as it could carry itself.

[Scott]

I'm slightly late to the party, but I also enjoyed my first ever Scottish Champs and first ever run on Creag Mhic. I thought the individual in particular was well planned (if a little short) and made excellent use of a surprisingly varied area.

We had three cases of "I only have a credit card, I don't carry cash anymore". It's only a quid, and that was forewarned in the notes.

We did remember to bring the cash but, to be clear, "only a quid" means

1. Find out where there is still a functioning cash machine (I'm in central London but would nevertheless need to go online to find out whether there's one nearby)
2. Make a special trip to said cash machine to withdraw a banknote
3. Find a shop that is still taking cash (as for #1)
4. Buy something you don't really want with your banknote in order to get some change

Surely it would be easier all round just to let people pay the parking fee online with their entries? That way, as long as you trust people to do the right thing, you can deploy your hard-pressed volunteers to do something more fulfilling than standing on a gate with a bucket.

[Blonde bombshell]

We did remember to bring the cash but, to be clear, "only a quid" means
Find out where there is still a functioning cash machine (I'm in central London but would nevertheless need to go online to find out whether there's one nearby)
Make a special trip to said cash machine to withdraw a banknote
Find a shop that is still taking cash (as for #1)
Buy something you don't really want with your banknote in order to get some change

My, my, how the other half live!
Stop tapping your phone & join the real world.

[graeme]

Down in the remote south I've never heard anyone talk about the Scottish Champs. Maybe a bit more marketing might help? Is it always on the spring bank holiday weekend?

Yes, explicitly to help the English because most of us don't get a day off here. "Bank holiday" means the banks are closed. Once long ago it was a "National" event often a selection race, and protected in the fixture list. When that changed it went into decline, especially with direct competition from SINS.

Relays can also be tricky if there aren't many from your club going.

I was going to disagree with you there - I wrote the relay rules so that any three people can make up a TD5 relay team, and will get age-appropriate course.
Also, it explicitly allowed for combination teams from, e.g. SEOA., if you don't have three from the club. But then I checked, and the rules are now much more opaque and unwelcoming

Branding - it used to be the "Scottish Championships weekend", and I agree it really should be because if you English come to just one SOA event - you should come to this on. But now there are so many disciplines want "Scottish Championships" status we can't call it that now. The consequence of having so many champions (even I was one last year, Night-O when I can hardly stand up FFS) is that there aren't really any Champions.

it would be better to stick to what works just for Scots?

That's been a debate, and this seems to be the winning argument.
Remember, Scotland is struggling to find resources to run a six-day this summer (and failing, hence only 5-days). Next year we're struggling to find resources for WOC, 2025 is the 6/5/4-day again. There's just not enough volunteer capacity in the traditional model to mount another big annual event.

[Homer]

Branding - it used to be the "Scottish Championships weekend", and I agree it really should be because if you English come to just one SOA event - you should come to this on. But now there are so many disciplines want "Scottish Championships" status we can't call it that now.

See my suggestion.

Surely it would be easier all round just to let people pay the parking fee online with their entries? That way, as long as you trust people to do the right thing, you can deploy your hard-pressed volunteers to do something more fulfilling than standing on a gate with a bucket.

I suspect farmers in Oban much prefer a bucket load of cash rather than a bank transfer.

[rf_fozzy]

My, my, how the other half live!
Stop tapping your phone & join the real world.

Seriously?

The world* has moved on.

I can count on half the fingers of one hand the amount of times I've used cash in the last 2 years. Everywhere takes card.

Asking for cash in a bucket is very 1990s.

*except certain parts of the US that still make you swipe a card and countersign. But parts of the US are very backwards and stuck (at best) in the 1980s.

[yted]

My greengrocer on the market (and more relevantly farmers with flat fields, as Homer says) only take cash. I might go for a 3 or 4 day weekend in Scotland but not for a classic and a relay. I suspect the weekend idea would boost numbers but not sure by how many.... and the problem as always is getting the officials.
Perhaps we're getting closer to paying people for putting on events...?

[rf_fozzy]

Farmers don't have bank accounts like everyone else?

Hmmmmm.....

If you have to pay a farmer for a field, you do a BACS transfer and budget the price into the event budget/entry fees. Simples.

And if they really do, even in the 2020s, insist on cash, then the club treasurer (or a nominated representative) can withdraw the cash and pay the farmer.

And recognise that most of the modern world has gone cashless.