Just spotted these on the BOF website
Sprint Champs - apart from the Elites, the rest of us get just one heat per class to decide which final and start order.
Competition Rules - I cannot make any sense of the entry in Summary of Changes which just says "2022-07:"
2023 Rule Changes
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2023 Rule Changes
curro ergo sum
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King Penguin - addict
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Re: 2023 Rule Changes
Would probably be helpful if Appendix D of the Rules caught up with the IOF map specification: "Sprint maps shall always be laser printed"
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greywolf - addict
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Re: 2023 Rule Changes
How do rule changes get triggered? I have suggested in the past on Nopesport that the (unintended?) consequence of the 2019 rule changes to measure course distance by optimum route is to reduce the recommended length of urban races by 30-40%. Some may like to have an open class distance of 6km, but I suspect more would prefer urban planners to have the opportunity to plan a 12 or 13km course where the terrain and map allows. I suggest the recommended top distance be upped from 10 km to 13km or even more and the others scaled up correspondingly.
- PG
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Re: 2023 Rule Changes
I too have noticed (and disapprove of) the trend of most Urbans becoming middle distance in winning time. I accept this is all some areas will support, without too many boring legs, but where it is possible in my opinion urbans should have classic expected winning times.
curro ergo sum
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King Penguin - addict
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Re: 2023 Rule Changes
I think this is potentially a problem. Even if every region were to complain about a rule there is no obligation on Events and Competitions Committee to take any action. It is purely down to the committee membership, and possibly the Board.PG wrote:How do rule changes get triggered? ...
I notice that they are still keeping the requirement (slipped in without much publicity a few years back) that for Level B events the Controller must be from a different region. (Whereas for level C, it is only recommended to be from a different club, with a number now using the same club). Although a few 'central' regions, and clubs close to regional boundaries, may be in favour, almost everyone I have spoken to from around the country thinks this rule is daft, and by imposing 100+ (or even 200+) mile round tips on controllers probably leads to poorer controlling. I think most Level B events I go to still have a controller from the same region, so they must be either all applying to E&CC for a rule waiver, or (deliberately or unknowingly) breaking the rules so invalidating their insurance cover.
- Snail
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Re: 2023 Rule Changes
Snail wrote:I notice that they are still keeping the requirement (slipped in without much publicity a few years back) that for Level B events the Controller must be from a different region.
That has been reversed because many of us ignored it. So long as a properly qualified controller (from whatever club) is in place to sign off the risk assessment, insurance cover is in place.
- NeilC
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Re: 2023 Rule Changes
Or indeed anyone who has attended an event safety course - whether or not they happen to be a controller.
- pete.owens
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Re: 2023 Rule Changes
King Penguin wrote:..., but where it is possible in my opinion urbans should have classic expected winning times.
The likes of Kris Jones could probably cover 25km in 95 minutes; I'm not sure there is that much demand for urban courses that long.
The problem with the rules is not that courses are too long or too short it is that they are completely undefined - so when you enter you have no idea how long the courses are going to be so no way of deciding which one to enter. The rules should work the way they do for forest events. They should not specify which courses are offered just that whatever courses are offered are accurately specified.
In a forest event in a small area the longest course may be under 5km. We don't call that course "black" and then go on to define a range of courses down to a 1.2km very short green course. The same should apply for urban events - just because an area is too small to plan the longest course there is no need to shorten all the other courses.
- pete.owens
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Re: 2023 Rule Changes
Mea culpa! I thought I was looking at the 2023 rules, but it must have been the old ones.NeilC wrote:Snail wrote:I notice that they are still keeping the requirement (slipped in without much publicity a few years back) that for Level B events the Controller must be from a different region.
That has been reversed because many of us ignored it. So long as a properly qualified controller (from whatever club) is in place to sign off the risk assessment, insurance cover is in place.
- Snail
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Re: 2023 Rule Changes
Has anyone got their head round the implications for ordinary level B and C events of the changes to rule 27?
- Alun
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Re: 2023 Rule Changes
Alun wrote:Has anyone got their head round the implications for ordinary level B and C events of the changes to rule 27?
The only significant change is to not publish start times ahead of entries closing. Some entry systems are allowing competitors to choose a specific start time when they enter and also allow the organiser to display those chosen start times online. This allows other competitors to potentially choose an advantageous start time - eg just ahead of someone that might tow them round.
- NeilC
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Re: 2023 Rule Changes
NeilC wrote:Alun wrote:Has anyone got their head round the implications for ordinary level B and C events of the changes to rule 27?
The only significant change is to not publish start times ahead of entries closing. Some entry systems are allowing competitors to choose a specific start time when they enter and also allow the organiser to display those chosen start times online. This allows other competitors to potentially choose an advantageous start time - eg just ahead of someone that might tow them round.
That's seems a bit excessive for a Level C event in my opinion (although most of the events I've been to this year haven't enforced start times in any case).
- roadrunner
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Re: 2023 Rule Changes
The Rules being debated in this thread are still DRAFT ones and are, as far as I'm aware, still subject to modification.
- DJM
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Re: 2023 Rule Changes
The rule about non-disclosure of start times makes sense for 'serious' competitions/competitors, but for 98% of us surely over the top. Perhaps that needs drafting to be "selection competitions"? Displaying start times before entries close is good in many ways, it helps sociability (by enabling club members to start at roughly the same time) and makes car sharing a bit more likely. I would also avoid starting just before or after an equally matched competitor as it's distracting.
Actually rather than a rule the entry system could fix this problem, if indeed it is a probem, and retain display - by preventing competitors of roughly similar ability as measured by their ranking points starting adjacent to each other. Or perhaps only apply this logic to non punter competitors, eg ranked outside the top 10% for their age class. Once that problem is solved we could then move to a 30 second start interval since peer competitors would be spread out.
Actually rather than a rule the entry system could fix this problem, if indeed it is a probem, and retain display - by preventing competitors of roughly similar ability as measured by their ranking points starting adjacent to each other. Or perhaps only apply this logic to non punter competitors, eg ranked outside the top 10% for their age class. Once that problem is solved we could then move to a 30 second start interval since peer competitors would be spread out.
- SeanC
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Re: 2023 Rule Changes
roadrunner wrote:NeilC wrote:Alun wrote:Has anyone got their head round the implications for ordinary level B and C events of the changes to rule 27?
The only significant change is to not publish start times ahead of entries closing. Some entry systems are allowing competitors to choose a specific start time when they enter and also allow the organiser to display those chosen start times online. This allows other competitors to potentially choose an advantageous start time - eg just ahead of someone that might tow them round.
That's seems a bit excessive for a Level C event in my opinion (although most of the events I've been to this year haven't enforced start times in any case).
The choose-your-own-start-time feature appeared as a specific response to covid (what was really required was start blocks). It should probably be dropped now we are not limiting numbers gathering at the start.
What should most certainly be dropped is publishing start times and then taking no notice of them. If your event is operating a queueing start then do not offer or publish start times. If competitors get used to start times being meaningless then they will start turning up late at events where the start time does matter.
- pete.owens
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