Compass Sport Cup start lists

[WillG]

Can some please explain the seeding that has been used for the start blocks for the CSC final at the weekend? It seems that some clubs have a far more favourable grouping of up to runners in the final 30-40minutes of the start blocks whilst some clubs have no runners within the final 45minutes, which seems pretty unfair for a club competition...

[mikey]

From the rules

.1.1 Competing clubs shall initially be pre-allocated an equal number of start times, in rotation, throughout the start period. A different order of rotation shall be used on each course. (There shall be no specific allowance for clubs travelling longer distances.) When allocating start times at a match which is both Cup and Trophy the ratio is 3 Cup starts to two Trophy starts. (Based on 2017)
6.1.2 From this the organiser shall prepare a schedule of start times. These shall be provided to the clubs who will then nominate the names of runners to the start times and provide these to the organiser by a date specified prior to the date of the event..

[Snail]

Is there any individual seeding? Don't clubs just get an allocation of start times on each course, and it is up to club captains to fill those slots as they see fit?

If a club has more runners than available slots on a particular course they can ask for more slots, which may come from those not taken up by others, and this could lead to some apparent bunching and/or gaps.

It is a shame that the Cup/Trophy rules, which would make things clear, appear to no longer be available anywhere.

[Arnold]

Doesn’t immediately look that unfair to me.

The main way to get “bunching” is more if clubs don’t have that many runners. Let’s say your club gets allocated one start time every 10 minutes on each course so that could be up to 15 slots a course. You don’t have to balance out your choice of slots, so if you only have 5 runners a course then your entire club could legitimately start in the last hour, should you so choose.

[Hermes]

Course 1 certainly seems unfair. OD's last person is at 12:44, after him several clubs have multiple runners, for example:
FVO x 3
WCOC x 3
SYO x 3
SO x 3

Either the OD club captain filled course 1 up from the front in error, or the start list is flawed.

Also, the start interval on course 1 is also seemingly random. For example, in the last 20 starters there is a block of 5 runners all starting 1 minute apart, but also a 5 minute gap with no starters at all.

Again, this could be down to club captains not filling their last spots, or the start list is flawed.

[NeilC]

Clubs are indeed allocated start slots for each course, for Brown I (SO Club Captain) was given the following times
10:37 11:01 11:16 11:35 11:39 11:56 12:16 12:40 12:55 13:14 13:18
If a club has more runners on a course than slots they can ask for extra slots - I normally ask for early/middle/late slots for these runners and they are allocated slots not used by other clubs (after the entry closing date). It would be unfair I think if a club asked for late times for all their spare runners. Being a local final for us this year I managed to get a team of almost 120 runners which meant asking for a lot of extra slots, Andy McGregor did an excellent (and fast) job in dealing with these requests.

Many clubs backload their best runners at the end (especially when there is a risk of residual bracken or they have runners taking part in the FRA relays on the Saturday). Others want to make an early start home so frontload more.

There is a dedicated CSC page at
http://www.pgopage.co.uk/compasssportcup.htm

[SJC]

Competing clubs shall initially be pre-allocated an equal number of start times, in rotation, throughout the start period.

10:37 11:01 11:16 11:35 11:39 11:56 12:16 12:40 12:55 13:14 13:18

Difficult to see how applying the rule can give a club start times on a course that are only four minutes apart.

[NeilC]

Difficult to see how applying the rule can give a club start times on a course that are only four minutes apart.

Why? The rules just say that no two runners from the same club should start on consecutive minutes on the same course. At past events organisers would simply allocate start times for each club and then repeat throughout the course

ClubA ClubB ClubC ClubD ClubA ClubB ClubC ClubD ClubA etc

This ended up with runners from one particular club always following runners from another particular club which was less than ideal. The current allocation mixes this up a bit while retaining a good distribution of slots throughout the start window. The start lists are not published until after the final date for changes so clubs can't manipulate start times to try and give their runners a tow from known runners from other clubs. We don't even know what slots other clubs have been given. If allocated two slots four minutes apart a savvy club captain would allocate the 2nd slot to the better orienteer - but of course not advise the first runner to wait at the start for the 2nd runner because that's against the rules of our sport.

[Scott]

If allocated two slots four minutes apart a savvy club captain would allocate the 2nd slot to the better orienteer - but of course not advise the first runner to wait at the start for the 2nd runner because that's against the rules of our sport.

Indeed.

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