JK Surplus

[PhilJ]

Most people will have read Peter's News on the BO website by now, and the one article I thought I'd pick up on was the huge surplus of £60K.

I have given up going to the JK and BOCs many years ago as the entry fee is to high and restrictive. But the demographic from the survey (of people who attended!) is male and 50+ - so that would be me

But £20+ to run a Blue course - which is what I would get (M50S) is stretching it. So is the JK with its fee structure and ageing demographic sustainable?

It is amazing how such a surplus could be generated from what should be a heavily understood and budgeted event, with 50+ years of JKs and BOCs to look at back on. There should be no last minute gotchas of costs. Or is it the case that BO dictate the surplus and the budget/entry fee is worked backwards from that? So if the surplus was a modest £10K what would have been the entry fee?

Peter's note says "and ultimately the sport of orienteering is the only beneficiary of the surplus." What does this actually mean? It would be better for Peter to have explained how the £60K had been divided up between BO, Association and Clubs (if that's how it's done) and what that money will be spent on e.g. is it ring fenced for projects or grass roots dev, clubs have to spend it on mapping, IT tech refresh etc or does it just go into the coffers and be spent on nothing in particular. Shouldn't we, the membership, not have a say how the JK surplus that BO receives is spent? After all it is the membership that organises, plans, etc etc the whole weekend?

The survey was an interesting one and again demonstrates the lack of comms from BO. Only the people who went to the JK got the survey to complete, so what about the rest of the membership, does their view not count? Maybe Peter would like to know why only a % of the membership attend JK and BOCs?

[SeanC]

Personally I think the JK is extreme organising, and I'm very happy to see the clubs and regions benefiting from big sums. They've definitely earned it. I remember a few years ago the SEOA surplus went mostly to fund the SEOA junior squad.

If BO use their share of the surplus for club development and publicity to help bring in a new generation of people 50- into orienteering, then that seems like a sustainable model to me.

[Lard]

Maybe this is an anomalous year because the organisers were so good at cost-saving?
If so then it should be rightly spent within that region.

I am getting tired of travelling the country for these large events where assembly and car parking for such large a number of people often limits the quality of the orienteering available.

The JK should be an exemplar for a major orienteering event and I'm pleased to see there are motions to combine the results of a Sprint, Middle and Long Distance to see who is a true all-round champion at this sport.

The British Champs series are doing great too.

But I think - shoot me down please - that one should have to qualify (ie be of a suitable standard, to run in these major events - do away with all Short/B classes and offer Open Colour Coded courses for those that are coming in support of others).
This will allow us to focus more on regional events and develop more closer-to-home events around this. A selection-chasing junior, for example, should not be expected to travel hundreds of miles over numerous weekends.#bringbacktheFCC

Discuss.

[buzz]

But I think - shoot me down please - that one should have to qualify (ie be of a suitable standard, to run in these major events - do away with all Short/B classes and offer Open Colour Coded courses for those that are coming in support of others).

I expect you will be shot down, but not by me!

[PhilJ]

I very much congratulate WMOA and the organising team for working so hard on organising JK 2018, and fully support that the surplus they receive from the weekend goes to them to develop O in the WMOA region.

But it has been mentioned previously (may have even been on Nope) that BO set a surplus amount that the event must make, and anything else is divided out. Is this still the case?

Its all about transparency, which historically BO has been poor on. So how much of the £60K has gone to BO and what will it be spent on? For example will it now be used for the Performance and Talent Programme that Peter wishes to discuss at the club & association conference. Maybe the membership should lobbying BO that it is...

[andy]

But I think - shoot me down please - that one should have to qualify (ie be of a suitable standard, to run in these major events - do away with all Short/B classes and offer Open Colour Coded courses for those that are coming in support of others).

Totally agree, think this would add a lot.

I wonder how many other sports in the country allow anyone (who is an NGB member) to enter their British Champs?

[PhilJ]

that one should have to qualify (ie be of a suitable standard, to run in these major events - do away with all Short/B classes and offer Open Colour Coded courses for those that are coming in support of others).

So back to £20+ to run a Blue for me then.

If I look at my class, there are only 10 people who would win JK or BOC in any year, so you could invite the top 30 seeded in each class, using the BO ranking at some random point in time.

15 classes, 30 runners, male & female ~ 1000 runners, with the rest running colour coded.

Think BO would shot that down as the entry numbers aka "surplus" would quickly reduce over years. What would the entry fee be - £50.00 per day for seeded runners?

Shall we all go to JK in ????? and Dad runs Blue, Mum Short Blue and Kiddies 2 x Yellow...ah no thanks

[NeilC]

But I think - shoot me down please - that one should have to qualify......

There already is a qualification. Those with the mindset that they are willing to pay a bit more money and are willing to run at an event with significantly more bells and whistles than usual, and usually against the best in their age class - despite how bad they themselves might be - qualify. Those with a different mindset don't.

Like most clubs we have many members in each camp, but movement between the two does happen.

[Big Jon]

As long as the event surplus goes to developing orienteering (and that for me can be anything that increases numbers in O or improves quality of events or improves personal standards) then I'm happy for the JK to have made the large surplus.
Just wish last years 6-Day had made as much...

[Paul Frost]

I wonder how many other sports in the country allow anyone (who is an NGB member) to enter their British Champs?

Years ago when I raced around in small boats anyone could enter the national championships.
Only a few months ago I took part in the IronMan 70.3 European Championships in Denmark, and I'm certainly not an elite.
There is no qualification required to enter the World Masters Orienteering Champs.

Let's face it, Joe Bloggs participation is needed to subsidise the entry fees for the elites. Without the money that they pay for entries how would you fund events like WOC?

[graeme]

The JK made a healthy profit. That would be a good thing, but remember they don't have to pay a BO levy, so its not quite as big as it seems.

Can someone run me through the difference between an M40S course and a blue course? I'm meant to control these things and I've no idea. But I do like the idea that if I'm too slow to be competitive in my age class, I'm allowed to run whatever course I'd enjoy most.
e.g. M21E

[ChristineV]

I've just coordinated the British Sprints and Middles. We haven't finished with the accounts yet, so no comment on that. However, it is surprisingly difficult to set a budget, even though we started with the 2017 budget as a guideline. The circumstances of a given event can vary dramatically from year to year, as so many things are not standardised ... land access fees, parking fees, will you need track-matting or bussing, do you need to re-map ... Officials' expenses can vary; do they live just down the road; how many visits are required if it's a tricky area (one site liked ripping up trees and putting up new buildings); how many meetings should the team have, and who comes.

Some folk simply don't want to spend £20+ on an entry fee. (I had a long email discussion with one person who just could not see why we "wanted" all the bells and whistles. If they'd come to either day, they would have seen where their money went and what a splendid day it was.) Just as some folk don't want to travel far from home for their orienteering. You don't have to do either - but if you want the best from your sport, and to contribute to it, then you do both.