JWOC

[buzz]

Interesting courses with lots of route choices.

https://gps.tulospalvelu.fi/gps/2017jwocSM
https://gps.tulospalvelu.fi/gps/2017jwocSW

Most of the obvious choices appear to have been balanced looking at the tracking, but 8 and 21 looked critical.

Hayes and Von Krusenstierna ran away from the field early on but Von Krusenstierna stopped just before 7 (perhaps dropped something), and Hayes seemed to get confused on the way to 13 and went back via 20.

Sasha got control 8 wrong - taking in too many steps on the right-hand route, and Hadorn had the gold in his grasp until he took the high path to 21 when the beach was faster.

[JamesE]

Sasha got control 8 wrong - taking in too many steps on the right-hand route

7-8 is a pretty interesting leg. Just looking at it in isolation (imagine approaching 7 directly from the south), left looks quite clearly shorter and quicker; going right means you have to come wide round the olive and then either wide again round the steps or up the steps.

With touch-free punching however, the approach from the west from 6 makes right look more viable than it actually is as you can flow through 7 at high speed - but then you have to turn round at 8. 8-9 is a transport leg so everyone goes the same way, so you're going to lose time on that one too.

Right is by no means a disaster, and there a plenty of other places to make up time on other people, but it's interesting to note that having been with or even slightly ahead of (I'm going by the gps on this) Ojanaho, Heikkila, Hadorn at 6, Sasha punches 11 (at the end of the transport legs) in 12th place.

[buzz]

Sasha got control 8 wrong - taking in too many steps on the right-hand route

7-8 is a pretty interesting leg. Just looking at it in isolation (imagine approaching 7 directly from the south), left looks quite clearly shorter and quicker; going right means you have to come wide round the olive and then either wide again round the steps or up the steps.

With touch-free punching however, the approach from the west from 6 makes right look more viable than it actually is as you can flow through 7 at high speed - but then you have to turn round at 8. 8-9 is a transport leg so everyone goes the same way, so you're going to lose time on that one too.

Interesting - I hadn't really looked hard at the leg - on first glance it looked faster left even taking into account flow through 7 - I don't think I took into account flow through 8.

With 23 controls at race speed you only have time for fast intuitive decisions so things like taking into account flow direction in the next leg(s) have to be subconscious. Takes a huge amount of practice to master.

[Little Hoddy]

It's easy to create a trap for yourself if you focus too much on control punching flow; usually the fastest route is the fastest route and the punching difference (absolutely no more than 2 seconds) isn't big enough to change that. Generally I only think about it if the routes look really 50:50.

I don't think I can spot a 1-2 second difference in route choices!

[buzz]

It's easy to create a trap for yourself if you focus too much on control punching flow; usually the fastest route is the fastest route and the punching difference (absolutely no more than 2 seconds) isn't big enough to change that. Generally I only think about it if the routes look really 50:50.

I don't think I can spot a 1-2 second difference in route choices!

I thought you guys had done some tests and found it was more than 2 seconds but perhaps I'd misheard?

I agree you can't spot 1-2 seconds but in a race like todays none of the route choices would be more than 5 or 6 seconds difference so 2 seconds is significant. You also waste energy as well as time when turning.

But I don't think you should 'think about it'. Any adjustments for flow, cornering, steps, climb etc have to be instinctive - if you start analysing during a race you lose speed and/or focus.

I guess what you mean is if the route choice looks 50/50 you automatically choose the route with the best flow?

Interesting point about making a trap for yourself. I guess you could argue that if you don't take flow direction into account in a considered way (ie with an understanding of what 2 seconds means) then you could be sucked into a poor route choice by the urge to flow through the control.

[Little Hoddy]

Yeah we did - to be fair I could just be remembering the results wrong!

Either way the conclusion I came to is that if I can actually see that one route looks better than another then the difference between the two is usually big enough that it overrides any possible benefit of running through the controls. If I can't decide between the routes, then I'll try to take the flow direction into account.

[JamesE]

Anyone found any splits from today? I'd be interested to look at a couple things.

[Sunlit Forres]

I have emailed some info to the Press & Journal (NE Scotland's regional daily). Sasha's performances deserve some publicity and as an Aberdonian the regional daily ought to be interested. I've referred them to BO office for comments, but if anyone out there can send anything in (incl a good action photo), the email address is pj.sport@ajl.co.uk

It would be useful to get orienteering a bit of decent coverage ahead of the 6 Days where Sasha will be running.

[buzz]

Yeah we did - to be fair I could just be remembering the results wrong!

More likely my memory is failing these days

If anyone knows for sure that would be great.

BTW, great to hear a current athletes thoughts on this type of thing.

[jayelc]

My understanding is that the athletes didn't have a choice about running today (if I've been misled, it would be good to know why they chose not to run); really feel for those who missed out. This does seem to be becoming a regular occurrence in the GB team despite athletes / parents / coaches raising it with BO every time it happens. What is it that the GB coaches don't understand about everyone else's views & what will it take to put it right for next year so that juniors don't keep missing out.

[Toni]

Some never intended to run and should have been removed for fairness to those starting around them but some were ill to be fair to team management. I understand this was all debated by team leaders last year...

PS great run by Paul today for ireland

[JamesE]

Sasha on AP:

Good stuff! Even with one horrific route to no.8 perhaps costing a medal. What's worse is that I noticed before beginning the leg but failed to correct myself, thinking it couldn't be that bad...

[buzz]

Sasha on AP:

Good stuff! Even with one horrific route to no.8 perhaps costing a medal. What's worse is that I noticed before beginning the leg but failed to correct myself, thinking it couldn't be that bad...

Perhaps the control flow trap that Hoddy suggested?

[Strider]

Just catching up after a furious few days of competition here at JWOC and thought I'd take the opportunity on our rest day to respond to the posts here on this thread. Firstly, I would like to thank all those who have posted messages of support and congratulations to the team. Sasha's performances in Finland so far have been outstanding and it's been great to witness his success and see him reap the rewards for so many years of hard work. The rest of the squad have acquitted themselves with distinction and the whole management team have been very proud of their efforts!

Regarding the questions over 'non-runners', the situation has been very complex, as you can imagine at JWOC, and has been influenced by a number of factors, such as illness and injury. Every action has been taken on an individual by individual basis and I can assure you that the athlete's interests have always been at the centre of our decision making process. The individual cases are too lengthy to outline here (and I'm not sure that it would be appropriate to divulge personal details on a public forum), but I am more than happy to discuss our strategy with anyone who would like to know more.

We're now looking forward to the final two days of competition and we hope that there is more success to come for Team GB.

Regards
S.

[buzz]

Good to see Strider taking an interest in the debate. His post raises a few questions but perhaps worth responding after JWOC to let him focus on the last couple of races.