Yes the Sprints at Aldershot were EMIT touch free and I had problems with it not registering a control when running past at speed (had to turn back after I noticed it not flashing).
Have used SIAC and not had any problems with it, although not used in a sprint race yet.
SIAC touch free
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Re: SIAC touch free
EddieH wrote: touch free punching at The British sprints at Aldershot was a disaster. and I cannot see how the JK sprint will not be the same...
Noting that Eddie never said it was SIAC.
One problem with Aldershot was using a technology in an important race which most competitors hadn't used before, and little allowance was made in the planning (three controls on the run in - why?)*. There's a lot more experience on both sides with SIAC, which gives me confidence it will be fine.
* Like charles2, I punched too fast twice - first time I noticed and went back, second time came straight after mp'ing the first run-in control. No doubt I punched too fast, but I've also no doubt I would have got it right with a more familiar system
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: SIAC touch free
Am I right in thinking that you can set the distance for SI Air to respond?
My impression of using it in Edinburgh at the weekend was that I'd to be very close to the unit for it to bleep <50cm) but I am certain that when I first used it (a model Sprint relay in Perth I think) that you could trigger it from much further. There''s a photo of CLaire Ward somewhere that looks like she is shooting the control from a few metres away while running past a bush I'm sure.
Incidentally I got my best ranking score in 12months on Sundays "mixed" punching event down in no small part I am sure to my recent purchase of SI Air card. Any chance BOF could add mixed punching in to the searchable terms on the events database so I can get my ranking up?
My impression of using it in Edinburgh at the weekend was that I'd to be very close to the unit for it to bleep <50cm) but I am certain that when I first used it (a model Sprint relay in Perth I think) that you could trigger it from much further. There''s a photo of CLaire Ward somewhere that looks like she is shooting the control from a few metres away while running past a bush I'm sure.
Incidentally I got my best ranking score in 12months on Sundays "mixed" punching event down in no small part I am sure to my recent purchase of SI Air card. Any chance BOF could add mixed punching in to the searchable terms on the events database so I can get my ranking up?
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
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Re: Coconuts
graeme wrote:NeilC wrote:So we have a number of predictions for the JK
and I predict that it will be fine.
You read it here first
I agree - and one of the reasons it will most likely be fine is the contribution made by this forum to highlighting, analysing and remedying this type of problem. So rather than trying to silence NopeSport perhaps they could give it one of their new volunteer awards. #nopegate
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buzz - addict
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Re: SIAC touch free
andypat wrote: Incidentally I got my best ranking score in 12months on Sundays "mixed" punching event down in no small part I am sure to my recent purchase of SI Air card. Any chance BOF could add mixed punching in to the searchable terms on the events database so I can get my ranking up?
I got lousy points this weekend due almost entirely to forgetting my recently purchased orienteering shoes and having to run in trainers (to get back to the original point of this thread).
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buzz - addict
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Re: SIAC touch free
andypat wrote:Am I right in thinking that you can set the distance for SI Air to respond?
My impression of using it in Edinburgh at the weekend was that I'd to be very close to the unit for it to bleep <50cm) but I am certain that when I first used it (a model Sprint relay in Perth I think) that you could trigger it from much further. There''s a photo of CLaire Ward somewhere that looks like she is shooting the control from a few metres away while running past a bush I'm sure.
No, you can't program the range. The event in Perth that you are remembering was using special SI units designed for MTBO and Ski-O and which have a greater range.
50cm is the range of the units used for Foot-O.
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Re: SIAC touch free
Thanks SI man (and also Sally Lindsay for the same info and the link to Crawford Lindsay's photo).
Thats interesting I wasnt aware that I'd used two different types of units. Complex business this SI stuff!
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Re: SIAC touch free
The ECC guidlines are now clearer that mixed punching should not be used within a class:
https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/event_news
Perhaps mixed punching results should be excluded from the ranking list.
https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/event_news
Event and Competitions Committee wish to advise organisers and competitors that they consider fair competition can only be provided using either of, but not both touch-free or contact electronic punches in the same competition class. All those competing directly against one another should do so in a way that does not confer an unfair advantage on one group.
Touch-free punching may allow the user to punch several seconds quicker per control than someone using a contact punch. The accumulated benefit over a whole course becomes significant.
This advice is in no way intended to restrict the introduction of new technology. Touch-free punching has been successfully used at many events over several years. However, all competitors in those events have used the same type of punching equipment. New technologies and potential developments allow the possibility of using either touch-free or contact punching in an event and consequently an unfair competition may result.
Consequently, Events & Competitions Committee recommend that organisers should ensure that all those in a competition class use either contact or touch-free punches; they should not allow a mixture of punching types in the same competition class.
Perhaps mixed punching results should be excluded from the ranking list.
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Re: SIAC touch free
Perhaps issuing such guidelines before the JK and British would have been a good idea.
Many people bought SIAC recently, judging by the number of SI card changes that needed to be done just ahead of BOC.
What do those people do now? Have 2 cards or use a SIAC in "normal" mode and wonder why they paid for a new card.
I don't think removing SIAC results is the right way to go. Why can't we just live with the new technology and have a transition. In time everyone will be on SIAC.
Many people bought SIAC recently, judging by the number of SI card changes that needed to be done just ahead of BOC.
What do those people do now? Have 2 cards or use a SIAC in "normal" mode and wonder why they paid for a new card.
I don't think removing SIAC results is the right way to go. Why can't we just live with the new technology and have a transition. In time everyone will be on SIAC.
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Re: SIAC touch free
Have ECC been biased by EMIT or are they just out of touch? We have had SIAC touch free mode enabled at every DVO event including 2 level Bs for some months. We offer to hire SIAC dibbers at £2 and the number of takers is very low - we have never run out of our 20.
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Re: SIAC touch free
Touch-free punching has been successfully used at many events over several years. However, all competitors in those events have used the same type of punching equipment.
Which shows just how out of touch E&CC are with what is happening at grass roots level.
Even at events which offered free hire of contactless cards many competitors chose to stick with their own non-contactless ones. Now they will be forced to hire a contactless one. Or clubs will simply ignore the recommendation.
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Re: SIAC touch free
MJG wrote:Have ECC been biased by EMIT
I don't understand this. I'm not aware of any EMIT event which has used mixed punching. Surely banning mixed punching is just levelling the playing field in the EMIT/SI competition?
Mixed punching is blatantly unfair. You just needed to watch competitors at the last control of the British Relays to see how much.
ECC might be a bit late in bringing out this 'advice' but you can't argue with the thinking behind it.
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Homer - diehard
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Re: SIAC touch free
MJG wrote:Have ECC been biased by EMIT or are they just out of touch? We have had SIAC touch free mode enabled at every DVO event including 2 level Bs for some months. We offer to hire SIAC dibbers at £2 and the number of takers is very low - we have never run out of our 20.
Perhaps the people turning up at your events have more respect for the principle of fair competition than the people organising them. I am confident that you would get a similar low take up if your results official offered to deduct 1 minute off peoples times for a fee of £2.
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Re: SIAC touch free
Homer wrote:I don't understand this. I'm not aware of any EMIT event which has used mixed punching.
There have been some I believe at the mid-week military events. Contactless, or mixed, punching requires the latest generation of EMIT control units though, which as far as I am aware only BAOC/EMITUK have at the moment.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15029#p172470
No idea how many of the EMIT clubs are looking to replace all their existing hardware.
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Re: SIAC touch free
The BAOC mid-week events have used emit touch-free and/or mixed punching for many events over the last few years. The recent WAOC and SARUM (I think), urbans were both mixed. The British Sprints in September are advertised as SIAC.
Planner's Comments
SIAC contactless punching was a new venture for WAOC - I hope that it was an interesting experience for those trying it for the first time. Whether the failure of control 64 was associated with the extra power demands of SIAC is as yet not known - the battery had been checked before the event. The box was replaced at 13.00 after finishers reported the issue. Those missing this control have been reinstated. Apologies to those affected.
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