How do you define passionate?

[awk]

Interesting exchange of open letters in the Spring Focus. I can see why Mike Hamilton is a CEO - he's certainly an expert in sliding out of a direct answer. Selwyn Wright expresses concern at the proportion of professional staff who have not only had no previous experience of the sport but seem to show no inclination to develop any. "An interest in, and indeed passion for, the subject appears to many of us to be a key ingredient in being able to fulfill any professional role." To which MH replies that "Staff are passionate about their work." Hmmmm. Not passionate about the subject, i.e. the sport, then? And passionate about the work? I gather from MH's reply that almost all the staff were desperate to attend WOC. Can't have been that desperate, as they apparently weren't there.

Seems that 'the sport' and 'the membership' are two different things, and the staff work for the sport. True, but without the membership there would be no sport, and he clearly seems to have forgotten or ignored that.

[RS]

Quite agree. In fact, when I read MH's reply, I thought it was a typical politician's reply ie avoided the questions and waffled.

[Mrs H]

This was how I defined passion for orienteering on nopesport a very long time ago (where did that 12 years go?) Perhaps you'd like to hold the template up and see how it fits!

As I drive around to events on a Sunday morning I have observed many groups of people embarking on various leisure pursuits, the oddly dressed re-enactment societies clustered outside pubs waiting to do battle, the vintage VW beetle owners on their way to a rally, the footballers waiting for the team bus, and I have always thought "good for you" hope you have a great day.

They, like me, have probably spent the previous evening preparing for their outing and the whole of the week looking forward to it. What unites us is an enthusiasm for something which transcends all the effort and expense. Most of us will have had fun poked at as at sometime or other but if there is an activity about which you feel some degree of passion then you are lucky and whether it propels you to the dizzy elite height of performance or the grass root depths of organisation then so be it - you have been blessed - and those who might think your commitment "sad" are merely glimpsing their own pale shadows cast by your zealous fire!

[daffdy]

So Awk, it sounds like you and Selwyn are suggesting that British Orienteering staff members should:

• Be regular orienteers
• Want to spend all week thinking about orienteering
• Want to spend at least one day of their weekend also thinking about orienteering
• Be willing to spend their holiday thinking about orienteering at the world orienteering champs
• Be willing for that orienteering holiday to involve to travel hundreds of miles from home in order to do their regular orienteering job, only at their own expense
• Be good at their orienteering job

I know many of us on Nopesport are keen, but I really don't think you'll meet many people who meet that criteria of extreme keen-ness. There have been a few, but it's pretty ridiculous to imagine that could possibly be the norm.

And:

I gather from MH's reply that almost all the staff were desperate to attend WOC. Can't have been that desperate, as they apparently weren't there.

Isn't really true, is it, since four of them were there.

[housewife]

How do I define passionate? Wanting to go to spectate wo on your doorstep regardless of whether somebody is going to pay you to be there. Of course bof jobs can and should be filled by those that meet this very, very basic criteria.

[awk]

So Awk, it sounds like you and Selwyn are suggesting that British Orienteering staff members should:

• Be regular orienteers
• Want to spend all week thinking about orienteering
• Want to spend at least one day of their weekend also thinking about orienteering
• Be willing to spend their holiday thinking about orienteering at the world orienteering champs
• Be willing for that orienteering holiday to involve to travel hundreds of miles from home in order to do their regular orienteering job, only at their own expense
• Be good at their orienteering job

I know many of us on Nopesport are keen, but I really don't think you'll meet many people who meet that criteria of extreme keen-ness. There have been a few, but it's pretty ridiculous to imagine that could possibly be the norm.

No I'm not suggesting that. I was commenting on the nature of the reply to the questions set by Selwyn. I actually have no issue whatsoever with BOF employing non-orienteers if they are the best people to do a particular job, and many of the skills required in sports development, for instance, are eminently cross-transferrable between sports. But if you are going to claim somebody is passionate, and desperate to do something........

What I would expect from somebody employed to develop a sport is that they make an effort to learn more about the sport and to raise their profile amongst those who organise the sport in their patch - I don't know if that's what they do, maybe that's already happening, although I've yet to hear anybody say it is. I would certainly expect to see the CEO make an effort to show his face at major events in his sport. How many CEOs in industry are so determinedly invisible as ours? And articles in a magazine are NO substitute.

Having said that, substitute the word 'teaching', or any number of other vocations, for 'orienteering' in your list above, and that list would be a pretty accurate reflection of what people in those vocations do. Whether that's good or not is a different matter, but they are passionate about their subject, not just their work.

[Mrs H]

I think we have to accept that Mike's use of the word "passionate" was ill-advised in earshot of an army of committed volunteers who deliver the sport week-in-week-out/rain/shine etc etc. Conscientious and hard working maybe! But passionate?

[SeanC]

Passionate is just a corporate buzzword - no need to take offence, I didn't. I can't imagine many people would. Perhaps I'm not passionate enough to take offence Or I've spent too long in an office.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_buzzwords

[andypat]

How do I define passionate? Wanting to go to spectate wo on your doorstep regardless of whether somebody is going to pay you to be there. Of course bof jobs can and should be filled by those that meet this very, very basic criteria.

Can they though?
I appreciate that in Scotland we are very very lucky with our PO, RDO and CDO people, but I work with people in Active schools who do a very very good job promoting all sorts of sports in schools and come 5pm they clock off and go play football. I suspect the guys who do Xplorer have far more in common with the Active schools type model than they do with our RDO type model.

Years ago when I was passionate but wholly unqualified I might have considered a CDO or RDO post, but I've seen the hours that you need to put in and the risk of burnout, for what at the end of the day is not a huge salary, and I'm happy to let anyone who is competent take up these posts. I wonder how many orienteers actually applied for the posts within BOF.

The SOA are looking for a chief operating officer....

[graeme]

The SOA are looking for a chief operating officer....

What's one of them*?

The Professional Officer position will disappear...

SOA have had three of these**. Donald Petrie, Scott Fraser, and Colin Matheson. If you're looking to define "passionate" for an employee, I'd look at any of them.


* Yes, I know there are JDs. The question is whether it's someone to do the tedious grunt-work, or to tell other people that they have to do it.
** I think, sorry if I missed anyone.

[awk]

Passionate is just a corporate buzzword - no need to take offence

But this was not a corporate setting. If it was used in this sense, and that is a big if, then it just emphasises the gulf.

[SeanC]

Oh, come on AWK, give the guy a break. There are other more important things to feel passionate about.

The guy was just defending his staff from the perception (not necessarily from Selwyn) that they don't care that much about the sport they are serving. That's fair enough, and I've heard that perception before here. Everyone uses language slightly differently depending on their age, where they work, where they live etc etc. It's good that we hear about what the staff do, even if the viewpoint is from one side only, especially as we're being asked for 90K to keep some of them.

If there is something to get a bit annoyed about, then maybe other aspects of the letter - eg the stuff about LOC not replying to emails etc. It had the air of blamestorming (anti-corporate buzzword BTW). It would perhaps have been better to make the points in general without making it look personal with LOC/Selwyn?

Sounds like people from LOC and Tom the BOF development person need a face to face meeting (both have something to gain from each other).

I think I'm peeling back the onion here.

[Arnold]

Once again confirmation for me that we have the wrong CEO

A CEO who is an administrator will hire people who are competent administrators and give them primarily administrative things to do

A CEO who is an orienteer is more likely to hire people who are passionate about orienteering (as well as being good administrators) - doesn't mean everyone will spend their weekends orienteering, but it's about setting the tone.

In the corporate world there is usually an expectation that employees regularly use the product/service they are trying to sell - they don't need to be "passionate" necessarily but at minimum reasonably interested.

Does anyone know who actually appoints the BOF CEO? Is the contract for X number of years or forever? Mike has been in place a long time, so at least the question should be asked whether he is still the right person going forward.

[DIDSCO]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/gene ... 90958.html

How did he get the job in the first place? Didn't BOF do their research?

[Freefall]

The Professional Officer position will disappear but many of the essential administrative items carried out by him (with considerable help from the SOA Board and the Development Officer) will pass to the Chief Operating Officer (the SOA in its current format do not have a CEO so a COO will do). Knowledge of orienteering is "desirable" so of course if a good candidate comes along who has knowledge of orienteering plus other essential experience they must be in with a good chance.
Derek Allison was of course the first "Professional Officer" though the job titles have changed over the years. I hope to become the new Events Manager and alas POs will be no more.
I would say all staff and Board in the SOA are passionate about orienteering, as indeed most of our competitors and volunteers are as well. Thanks for your support - I hope that the future is still bright despite all the goings on including changes at BOF and funding from sportscotland. The Scottish Sports Association (largely funded by sportscotland) have been told their funding will be chopped completely from next March. That's not good news.