graeme wrote:ba-ba wrote:Next year's entires are already open - apparently it'll be south of this year's event - so take your pick out of England then!
Galloway's south and out of Englandthe terrain was very rough in places.
Not by Galloway standards
OMM2015
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Re: OMM2015
Coming soon
Boston City Race (May, maybe not)
Coasts and Islands (Shetland)
SprintScotland https://sprintscotland.weebly.com/
Boston City Race (May, maybe not)
Coasts and Islands (Shetland)
SprintScotland https://sprintscotland.weebly.com/
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graeme - god
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Re: OMM2015
1976 Galloway
1986 Galloway
1996 Galloway
2006 Galloway
2016 ...
1986 Galloway
1996 Galloway
2006 Galloway
2016 ...
- Snail
- diehard
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Re: OMM2015
1976..... wet, very wet 

Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
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Gross - god
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Re: OMM2015
Limit of 750 teams for 2016 which suggests an area with environmental restrictions - Snowdonia??
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!"
Robert Burns
To see oursels as others see us!"
Robert Burns
- Jethro
- green
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Re: OMM2015
In 2015 - 634 teams started.
In 2013 - 851 teams started
In 2011 - 1001 teams started
In 2010 - 1352 teams started (over 1500 entries)
In 2006 - 1386 teams started
In 1999 - 1308 teams started
In 1996 - 1333 teams started
In 1986 - 1384 teams started
In 1976 - 497 teams started (533 entered - very low no-show rate!)
I have gone for teams started rather than entries. Limits for KIMMs was generally 3200 competitors and remember the waiting lists? Send your cheque to Jen Longbottom and you would get it returned if you were not called up to run. I don't think there was ever a KIMM/OMM with 3000 people toeing the start line but not far off.
You wont find any of these stats on the OMM website. The website has been changed so many times, and there is no historical data anymore. (CompassSport might do a full analysis of the OMM/KIMM in the future of all the years...)
2006 was the first OMM after the new owners took over. For the next few years there was still much input from Jen Longbottom, Mike Parsons and the gang previously running the show for many years. In fact Mike was doing the press interviews in 2008 when the event was cancelled in Borrowdale. It has really been in the last 5 years the OMM team has fully taken over, particularly marketing and presentation of the event.
Just looking at the bare facts, they have managed to more than half the starters. From a near sell out event in 2010, as usual, to 654 starters this year which means it was most possibly the smallest OMM since the 70s.
I have my views on what is going wrong. I wont harp on too much here. I have imparted some of those to the new marketing guy who has come from a Tennis background, but not seen any evidence of anything I said having been taken on board. They continue to haemorrhage numbers. They don't seem to care too much what has been done in the past. Going their own way, which is their choice of course, but they are killing an iconic event. The decrease in numbers it not just down to a lack of interest in MMs across the board. The orienteers involved do a great job actually planning, etc. on the whole, as usual, but they are not in control of the event it would seem.
In 2013 - 851 teams started
In 2011 - 1001 teams started
In 2010 - 1352 teams started (over 1500 entries)
In 2006 - 1386 teams started
In 1999 - 1308 teams started
In 1996 - 1333 teams started
In 1986 - 1384 teams started
In 1976 - 497 teams started (533 entered - very low no-show rate!)
I have gone for teams started rather than entries. Limits for KIMMs was generally 3200 competitors and remember the waiting lists? Send your cheque to Jen Longbottom and you would get it returned if you were not called up to run. I don't think there was ever a KIMM/OMM with 3000 people toeing the start line but not far off.
You wont find any of these stats on the OMM website. The website has been changed so many times, and there is no historical data anymore. (CompassSport might do a full analysis of the OMM/KIMM in the future of all the years...)
2006 was the first OMM after the new owners took over. For the next few years there was still much input from Jen Longbottom, Mike Parsons and the gang previously running the show for many years. In fact Mike was doing the press interviews in 2008 when the event was cancelled in Borrowdale. It has really been in the last 5 years the OMM team has fully taken over, particularly marketing and presentation of the event.
Just looking at the bare facts, they have managed to more than half the starters. From a near sell out event in 2010, as usual, to 654 starters this year which means it was most possibly the smallest OMM since the 70s.
I have my views on what is going wrong. I wont harp on too much here. I have imparted some of those to the new marketing guy who has come from a Tennis background, but not seen any evidence of anything I said having been taken on board. They continue to haemorrhage numbers. They don't seem to care too much what has been done in the past. Going their own way, which is their choice of course, but they are killing an iconic event. The decrease in numbers it not just down to a lack of interest in MMs across the board. The orienteers involved do a great job actually planning, etc. on the whole, as usual, but they are not in control of the event it would seem.
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Ravinous - light green
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Re: OMM2015
Having done OMM's/KIMM's sporadically over the years, this years felt like a good event to me. Good area, good courses, good map (they have learnt the lesson from 2014!), good event centre, good food, good atmosphere. Jen is a difficult act to follow - she was still there helping this year - so it is almost inevitable it is going to take a new team a few years to put their stamp on the event. If they carry on with the standard they have set this year then perhaps numbers will rise. It is unlikely that it will ever get back to the glory days of waiting lists - there are far more events of this type to choose from than there was "back in the day" - just take a look down the list of events on the SI website for a start. Reading some of the reports on the OMM Facebook page gives a fairly positive impression of the event and a good way of spreading the word and encouraging more to take part.
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!"
Robert Burns
To see oursels as others see us!"
Robert Burns
- Jethro
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Re: OMM2015
"back to the glory days..." of just 5 years ago??!! When certain courses sold out? When there was also the LAMM, RAB, SLMM, Highlander and others? I dont think there has been a boom in this sort of race in those 5 years? If anything, similar types of races (Rat Race, ACE events, Wan Dae, DW4 Adverture Race series, IRoc, Dynamic Adverture Racing and others) have all risen, boomed and died in the 2000 - 2010 period, but the KIMM/OMM was stable.
The OMM is the London Marathon of MMs. It should be strong no matter what other marathons come and go around the country.
No doubt as you say this years race went well. Read the next CompassSport December Issue! Just one major gripe I heard = the fact that they played about with the Chasing Start on Day two, compressing times so it wasnt a proper chasing start. So if you caught your Day 1 winners, you had to run away from them and not just out sprint them to the line. But of course the day 1 winners would just hang onto you... A poorly thought through idea which I hope is abolished. Have a chase or not - dont go for some half way effort.
(ps - Done 15 KIMM/OMMs)
The OMM is the London Marathon of MMs. It should be strong no matter what other marathons come and go around the country.
No doubt as you say this years race went well. Read the next CompassSport December Issue! Just one major gripe I heard = the fact that they played about with the Chasing Start on Day two, compressing times so it wasnt a proper chasing start. So if you caught your Day 1 winners, you had to run away from them and not just out sprint them to the line. But of course the day 1 winners would just hang onto you... A poorly thought through idea which I hope is abolished. Have a chase or not - dont go for some half way effort.
(ps - Done 15 KIMM/OMMs)
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Ravinous - light green
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Re: OMM2015
LAMM is struggling too, very low numbers after their 1-year break and now the next one is not until 2017.
Swiss MM has gone to less than 100 teams after many hundreds not so long ago.
Highlander MM is 'the last one' next year.
So OMM unfortunately is part of a wider trend - not sure the London Marathon comparison works because what punters seem to want is "easy" tough races like Tough Mudder or Tough Guy - ok they're "tough" but you don't need to map read or bring a load of kit.
I guess the decline of MMs goes hand in hand with the decline of most standard orienteering races in the UK (JK excluded) like the November Classic - used to be oversubscribed at 1200 cap and now 790 pre entries with 80% or so 45+...
Swiss MM has gone to less than 100 teams after many hundreds not so long ago.
Highlander MM is 'the last one' next year.
So OMM unfortunately is part of a wider trend - not sure the London Marathon comparison works because what punters seem to want is "easy" tough races like Tough Mudder or Tough Guy - ok they're "tough" but you don't need to map read or bring a load of kit.
I guess the decline of MMs goes hand in hand with the decline of most standard orienteering races in the UK (JK excluded) like the November Classic - used to be oversubscribed at 1200 cap and now 790 pre entries with 80% or so 45+...
- Arnold
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Re: OMM2015
Gross wrote:1976..... wet, very wet
1986.....wet and windy, very wet and windy

- gaw
- orange
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Re: OMM2015
1996. Campsite flooded, Day 2 supershortened on account of, er, wetness and windiness. Is there a theme developing here?
Coming soon
Boston City Race (May, maybe not)
Coasts and Islands (Shetland)
SprintScotland https://sprintscotland.weebly.com/
Boston City Race (May, maybe not)
Coasts and Islands (Shetland)
SprintScotland https://sprintscotland.weebly.com/
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graeme - god
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Re: OMM2015
I also suspect that the orienteering demographic explains a lot of those figures. Many/most orienteers are now in their late 50's/60's and the OMM must start to get a bit too physical for most in that age group. Not all of course.
I'm sure last year's map problems put quite a few people off this year though.
This year it seems much more of a positive trend. As well as the return of decent maps, the organisers provided a coach from the airport, a great idea. I thought the control positioning was excellent - controls were mostly on line features that couldn't be missed, the last thing you want at the OMM IMHO is having to hunt around for 10 minutes looking for a flag in a small gully or niche. The area gave some good route choices, though slightly spoilt by the last minute land access problems which sounds like it was beyond the organisers control.
OMM needs to evolve but keep it's tradition, it's a difficult balancing act. I think the organisers have the right strategy by doing an OMM lite as a stepping stone to the OMM classic. Don't laugh, but I think if there was an OMM lite type event one down south that would help. I know there are people in my running club who would be interested in OMM, but it's just too big a leap from satnav's and marshalled trail runs. Maybe OMM flat
somewhere like the Chilterns to get to the big South East market. If you wanted to make it tough maybe partly at night. The population of the South East and East Anglia is 22 million, there are many there who miss mountains and hills and would love the OMM.
The other thing I think they should do that may offend the purists is allow competitors to bring their mobile phones. Not to make a phone call but to take pictures and put on facebook. That's a really effective way for OMM to market to its target market.
I'm sure last year's map problems put quite a few people off this year though.
This year it seems much more of a positive trend. As well as the return of decent maps, the organisers provided a coach from the airport, a great idea. I thought the control positioning was excellent - controls were mostly on line features that couldn't be missed, the last thing you want at the OMM IMHO is having to hunt around for 10 minutes looking for a flag in a small gully or niche. The area gave some good route choices, though slightly spoilt by the last minute land access problems which sounds like it was beyond the organisers control.
OMM needs to evolve but keep it's tradition, it's a difficult balancing act. I think the organisers have the right strategy by doing an OMM lite as a stepping stone to the OMM classic. Don't laugh, but I think if there was an OMM lite type event one down south that would help. I know there are people in my running club who would be interested in OMM, but it's just too big a leap from satnav's and marshalled trail runs. Maybe OMM flat

The other thing I think they should do that may offend the purists is allow competitors to bring their mobile phones. Not to make a phone call but to take pictures and put on facebook. That's a really effective way for OMM to market to its target market.
- SeanC
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Re: OMM2015
Edit - spooky. Just been on the OMM website and there's going to be an OMM Chilterns!
https://www.theomm.com/omm-lite-chilterns-2016/
https://www.theomm.com/omm-lite-chilterns-2016/
- SeanC
- god
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Re: OMM2015
Of course all these OMM lite events also in some way dilute the OMM/KIMM brand as being the big event.
As for Galloway it is the area with IMO the best names of any of the MM areas: "The Range of the Awful Hand", "Rig of the Jarkness". "Nick of Curleywee" and many others!
Tip: If you remember the narrow inlet to Loch Dee as being nice and jumpable from a summer Capricorn event, remember that what the banks of said inlet will be under a couple of feet of water making jumping impossible. When I got there with Nigel we decided to swim ... we were very very cold afterwards!
As for Galloway it is the area with IMO the best names of any of the MM areas: "The Range of the Awful Hand", "Rig of the Jarkness". "Nick of Curleywee" and many others!
Tip: If you remember the narrow inlet to Loch Dee as being nice and jumpable from a summer Capricorn event, remember that what the banks of said inlet will be under a couple of feet of water making jumping impossible. When I got there with Nigel we decided to swim ... we were very very cold afterwards!
JK
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Re: OMM2015
It was a good OMM/KIMM this year. However the courses were (very) long, with Day 1 leading times: A 7 hrs; B 6 hrs; C 7 hrs! Due to the access issues, the C Cse was extended from 21km to 28 km, which was far too far for some (many?). I know one pair who retired after 5 hrs and do not appear in the results - possibly because they retired to the start rather than overnight campsite. That will put off some of those working their way up from the bottom. Having finished (Long Score) at 4 pm, I was surprised to hear finishers coming into the campsite at what must have been 9 pm. Too challenging? Thankfully, after Sat midday, mild weather, with occasional squalls. Long Score well-planned I felt, although the going due to undergrowth in some parts of the area were MUCH harder (without runnability mapping obviously). Early Routegadget showed wide diversity of route options, particularly on Day 2. But do Elite OMMers really want a 10km road run (planner's route between 2 controls)? C Cse 'options' towards end were really only one option, and far more physical than the rest of the course. Results (courtesy of Mike Napier) display was good. Campsite comfortable - plenty of portaloos (although majority hidden from view!); lit portaloos at night - luxury!; level well-grassed field. Marketing was good attempt - entries stayed open, at increased cost; presence at JK15 and Scottish 6-Days, handing out old maps; overseas entries obvious; next year's entries already open. 750 team limit good ploy to encourage early entry (for those not realising the real situation), but probably realistic limit for current demand to ease planning, as well as any environmental issues. Surely more areas will be accessible at lower numbers? Or does this mean that fewer landowners will be affordable? OMM Chilterns sounds very enticing to encourage participation; I haven't tried any OMM-lite as they were not accessible enough.
- cbg
- red
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Re: OMM2015
I am not convinced OMM Lite is much of a bridge to the real thing. You are not allowed off public footpaths and bridleways. So very limited terrain running at all. You essentially start and finish each day from your car in the car park. You could go to a B&B or camp beside your car. They also say you can go for a pub lunch during your run if you like.
Clearly it will have some appeal. A nice run in the hills, but still the gap between the OMM and Lite is huge. It is much simpler however to organise a Lite and a Score format on Public Footpaths needs minimal permissions (?)
Last 2 events attracted 32 teams (Short and Long Score classes only) and I cant tell you the Sept 2015 attendance as it links back to the April edition. They have changed the website again. No results from last year, although one in the Peaks (was it 2013?) was cancelled at the final hour due to something like Ground nesting birds. Some people had already started travelling to the event. (The story goes that a prominent experienced member of a South Yorkshire O club was approached to plan. Where and when he asked? His response was - well there is no way you will get permission to hold an event then and there! So no. Maybe if it was another time... But they pressed on and got a different planner and planned, only to have to cancel it, I think even after some of the controls had been hung too! It just doesnt instill confidence...)
Clearly it will have some appeal. A nice run in the hills, but still the gap between the OMM and Lite is huge. It is much simpler however to organise a Lite and a Score format on Public Footpaths needs minimal permissions (?)
Last 2 events attracted 32 teams (Short and Long Score classes only) and I cant tell you the Sept 2015 attendance as it links back to the April edition. They have changed the website again. No results from last year, although one in the Peaks (was it 2013?) was cancelled at the final hour due to something like Ground nesting birds. Some people had already started travelling to the event. (The story goes that a prominent experienced member of a South Yorkshire O club was approached to plan. Where and when he asked? His response was - well there is no way you will get permission to hold an event then and there! So no. Maybe if it was another time... But they pressed on and got a different planner and planned, only to have to cancel it, I think even after some of the controls had been hung too! It just doesnt instill confidence...)
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Ravinous - light green
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