Bend in uncrossable feature

[Rosine]

I have a control, which is placed on the bend of a linear feature, which can be difficult to cross for some/all competitors (for example a tall fence, tall wall, deep stream). So it is important for them to know on what side the control is placed.

Ideally, the control description should read: "linear feature, bend, E side", but the bend symbol and the N side symbol both go in column 6. I can just use the bend symbol, position the control circle a bit to one side, and make sure the lines for that leg direct to the correct side. Alternatively, I can pretend the bend is sharper than it is and call "N corner (outside)".

Suggestions?

[NeilC]

Use whatever is most helpful to the competitor, stating the side will probably more useful than stating that it's on a bend - which should be obvious from the map anyway.

[JK]

Some suggestions:
1. move control off linear feature to area feature [this may not always be possible of course], so if it is in an urban area (fence or wall perhaps), you can use "open land" or "paved area" and then say W-part (or inside W-corner if it is at a bend that is a bit cornerish), then move the kite back a bit from the linear feature AND offset the circle
2. If the other side of the feature is OOB (or could be made so) you could put OOB on the other side AND offset the circle, but then still say bend
3. Pretend it is a corner (as other poster said)
4. Disobey the rules (if not a level A or B) and use side of as well (the s/w allows it, it is commonly used in SWE TrailO in combination with "between", but is def non IOF. You'd have to inform competitors in advance of course.
5. just offset the circle a fair way, this is likely only viable on a mapped to scale linear barrier like a stream/river - but then "W-edge" would probably be a better description.

I'd try 1. first and if that won't work go for 3.

Note that to the competitor, NE part of paved area should (especially with slight offsetting) make it far more obvious where the kite will be found (tricking people into thinking otherwise isn't generally considered good practice) than inside fence corner.
It also flags (to those that read descriptions) that there'll be far less chance of cheating by leaning through.

[Scott]

I'm not a huge fan of "paved area, south-western part" or similar - I find the mental gymnastics required in translating that control description onto the map to be even trickier than understanding "fence, north-eastern inside corner".

I generally dislike any (foot) orienteering control that *requires* you to read the descriptions. My preference would always be to find a control site on a feature on the relevant side of the uncrossable line feature (e.g. a tree or a building corner or a pit) that allows you to centre the circle so that it is clear from the map which side of the line feature the control is on.

[JK]

If you offset the centre of the circle into the corner of the open area (when other side of boundary is, say paved area) then you don't need to read the description - that is the point.

Take control 11 on this course for instance:
http://www.mdoc.routegadget.co.uk/rg2/#176&course=1
NE corner of open land, or NE part of open land (which could have been used had it not been at a corner) gave less trickery to the competitor since either they could use the centre of the circle (centred on yellow stuff) or reading only part of the description to realise where the kite would be positioned.

[DavidHH]

I generally dislike any (foot) orienteering control that *requires* you to read the descriptions.

Without the description, are we just running to the centre of the circle and seeing what's there!

I'm not in favour of trickery, but one of the nuances I like in Urban events is the check that you have navigated to the right side of the wall.

BTW in column 6, Condes allows you to have 2 symbols.

[Scott]

Without the description, are we just running to the centre of the circle and seeing what's there!

I prefer to navigate to the feature that's shown at the centre of the circle on the map, without needing to refer to additional information elsewhere to do so. There's no doubt that control descriptions can help finding a control, but I don't like controls where using the descriptions is essential to locating the flag. Orienteering is about navigation with map and compass, and as the IOF spec for control descriptions says,

a good control is found primarily by map reading

[JK]

I generally dislike any (foot) orienteering control that *requires* you to read the descriptions.

Without the description, are we just running to the centre of the circle and seeing what's there!

I'm not in favour of trickery, but one of the nuances I like in Urban events is the check that you have navigated to the right side of the wall.

BTW in column 6, Condes allows you to have 2 symbols.

2 symbols is best kept for retro events!
Condes allows more than is allowed so it can be used for non-standard events, but best not to use them for proper ones.

[Rosine]

And this is meant to be a proper event

The control in this question is on an orange course, so it is easy enough to find when you're there, but we have to make sure they are on the right side of the line feature, and that they know where to look. I have gone for the "outside corner" symbol, and have also bent the connecting line from the previous control a bit so that it lies on the correct side.

The IOF definition doesn't say how abrupt the change needs to be for a "corner":
"The edge of a feature turns through an angle of 45-135 degrees" vs
"Used where a linear feature makes a smooth change of direction" for a bend.

Now, if only the controller would stop saying things like "btw, there was a JCB and a large new track in the middle of the white/yellow/orange courses..."

[JK]

Inside corner sounds good enough for Orange, but If there is a way to aproach the other side of the bend then imi it isn't orange standatd.
I.e. I don't think reading the description to that detail is an orange skill.

[Rosine]

Inside corner sounds good enough for Orange, but If there is a way to aproach the other side of the bend then imi it isn't orange standatd.
I.e. I don't think reading the description to that detail is an orange skill.

I'll post an image after the event. I think it takes some special effort to take the wrong side of the feature (the correct side has a minor path and is the logical route when coming through a gate) but this is a belt and braces thing.

Since having children I don't believe in such a thing as idiot-proof!

[JK]

...
Since having children I don't believe in such a thing as idiot-proof!

TBH I've found that some adults can be worse

[Kitch]

Is the line feature represented as uncrossable on the map ?
if not is this a fair control site ?
If some people cannot cross the feature, whilst others can then it could easily be unfair.

The need to be on the correct side of the feature is clearly important in the route planning, so it needs to be apparent to competitors beforehand that they must get on the right side, not just discover they are on the wrong side when they get there.

That kind of forward planning is fairly sophisticated orienteering technique and I wonder if it is above Orange standard.