Many Selections

[Kitch]

Buzz,
I think if people focussed on a specific race then they would be likely to achieve a higher position in that race.

Arnold, your numbers make sense.
I would speculate that the cost of team management is also being paid by the athletes ?

[DJM]

Arnold wrote:

Or old school ferry.

Very old school indeed ... direct ferries to Norway from the UK stopped some time ago I believe!

[DIDSCO]

Spookster > its a disgrace that BOF expects 17-20 year old to pay £1000 to represent their country at JWOC. The sport will simply die out if theres no support for our elite juniors. The JWOC team shouldnt pay a penny, instead there should be cash rewards for good results. The members of BOF should pay for this no questions asked if you want a future for the sport in the UK or with so many paid staff at BOF get them out finding sponsors, there's plenty of Norwegian british connected companies that could be approached but I bet nobody's bothered.

[Little Hoddy]

£1000 sounds like a lot of money but I think it's pretty common for the athlete's club and region to pay 1/3rd of the cost each if you ask them nicely, so this money obviously is coming from British Orienteering members just at a more local level. £334 doesn't sound so terrible for a week away with your friends having what, for me, was an incredibly exciting and fun orienteering experience.

I can't remember exactly what the contributions were for my JWOCs but even if they were as low as £300 it's only really a £234 increase in cost for the athlete. Of course I'd love to see more elite funding available but I'm confident that the British Orienteering staff are working hard to secure this for us.

[Dave]

£300 + £234 = £334

Has studying 'Applied Math' made you forget how Maths works?

[Little Hoddy]

Not really because I only paid 1/3rd of the cost back then too, so it would have been £100.

[Sunlit Forres]

A young local lad, who as far as I know does not come from a wealthy family, has worked incredibly hard to raise funds so he could go to Turkey the World Schools. His refreshments at local events became legendary. He or his family didn't seem to mind all the effort and sacrifices they had to spend to make the trip a reality, and I bet the trip will be a defining moment in his life, not least through the effort he's had to make to get there.

I do think orienteering, like a few sports, is largely the domain of the priviliged, or those who are prepared to give up an awful lot to get to the top. To get to the level where you might be considered for a JWOC requires lots of travel to the right events. Without parents who have the capacity, appetite and resources to offer the amount of support needed it must be pretty tough.

I don't know the backgrounds of the current crop of JWOC squad members, but would be interested to know how many are from "non-orienteering" families in the Scott Fraser mould.

I can't honestly see a utopian solution. I guess, like life, things ain't always going to be fair. Good things rarely come cheap and I've no doubt that for the JWOC athletes, whatever it's cost them personally will feel like it's been worth it. Good luck to all!

[graeme]

The sport will simply die out if theres no support for our elite juniors. The JWOC team shouldnt pay a penny,

Yeah, can't think of a better use of a few thousand quid's worth of development cash than giving it to middle class kids to go on trips abroad. It was much better when we lavished money on "elites", and who cares that all the non elite juniors gave up .
With attitudes like that, no wonder the membership at large won't support elite orienteering at any level.

[andypat]

Scott Fraser mould

You know you've made it when they name a disease after you!

[DIDSCO]

Graeme> where is your evidence that just because a load of cash was 'lavished' on us that meant all the non elite juniors gave up? I don't get your point as usual you make very little sense. My point is that a 16-20 year old should not be expected to pay £1000 or anything else to represent Britain at a junior World championships.

[SeanC]

I'm pretty sure that amongst the 84 open orienteering clubs in the UK, there are many with more reserves than they need, and could afford to donate, say £500 into an athlete support fund every year for 5 or even 10 years and still have healthy enough reserves.

Maybe those that feel passionate about this subject could make a proposal at the next AGM? A compulsary club levy of such a figure would at least get everyone talking about this subject. I suspect many orienteers are completely unaware of these funding issues. Of course some clubs don't have big reserves so would have to put up entry fees, which could be unpopular, so maybe a voluntary scheme might be more practical, but generate less income.

Lots of questions might be asked in any case, it could be an interesting debate.

[andypat]

Surely that's up to BOF to decide how much they need from whatever levy they choose to enforce and how to spend it?

[SeanC]

I would imagine that BOF would be more than happy to accept more funding, but have taken the judgement that clubs would be unwilling to accept a big increase in levy.

However things might be different if a group of orienteers mounts an effective campaign via an AGM proposal and communication with clubs. The "4 level" AGM proposal and associated campaign a few years ago shows the way. Definitely more effective than ranting on Nopesport, though there was a fair bit of that as well

Even if clubs vote no, communication between those that are involved with or interested in elite orienteering, and ordinary club level orienteers would be a good thing for everybody. There are quite a few clubs now with no elite level orienteers and few juniors.

if nothing else it might make more clubs think about what they can do productively with excess reserves that are currently doing nothing except making some banks richer..

[Spookster]

Surely that's up to BOF to decide how much they need from whatever levy they choose to enforce and how to spend it?

You make it sound like a dictatorship, Andy ! Reality is that we're a membership organisation, and we (all of us that are members) need to express our opinions so that we (the Board, elected by the membership) can set a strategy that is both right for the sport in the long term, and acceptable to the membership. Funding of the sport is a big challenge already, and potentially getting tougher still in the coming years.

I would imagine that BOF would be more than happy to accept more funding, but have taken the judgement that clubs would be unwilling to accept a big increase in levy.

However things might be different if a group of orienteers mounts an effective campaign via an AGM proposal and communication with clubs. The "4 level" AGM proposal and associated campaign a few years ago shows the way. Definitely more effective than ranting on Nopesport, though there was a fair bit of that as well

Here's an extract from this year's AGM, held a few weeks ago:

Chris James (NGOC) queried whether the levy rate should be increased further to support British Orienteering’s income. MW commented that currently the Board is proposing an increase to £1.25 and then opening the strategic consultation to discuss how the Governing Body and Sport should be funded in future.

[buzz]

I think if people focussed on a specific race then they would be likely to achieve a higher position in that race.

Not if you're Stan in Japan (apparently picked for WOC relay only and wasn't allowed to run because Palmer mispunched).

Arnold, your numbers make sense.
I would speculate that the cost of team management is also being paid by the athletes ?

Some of the management team will be BO staff so presumably accounted for already from Sport England funds.