British Long / Relay Champs 2015

[Adrian]

We've entered BOC since it's relatively local and we're not going to the JK. But the price tag has pushed me into entering the Long course in order to get value for money. So spare a thought for my daughter when she gets back from her Yellow course and then has a 2-hour wait for daddy.

[greywolf]

You mean like the 'atmosphere' at the British Sprints last year - with the endless droning on about an unreturned hired SI Card and lost car keys!!

That wasn't commentary, it was avant garde performance art

[ifor]

You need to decide if you think O needs a governing body and if they generally do a good job. I believe the answer is yes to both questions. I am aware that this is one of there major potential sources of income and do not begrudge them it. I should really support them more by entering late but that is possibly pushing the point a bit far. If you strongly object to them raising money this way then take it up though the appropriate channels or though the AGM. You do need to have some good alternatives though or some alternative budgets...

[canol]

Sigh! I've entered because I missed last years event mainly due to the distance to travel while this year I can travel on the day. Also I can not ever recall in over 25 years of o events in the Forest of Dean not enjoying an event there either from the challenge aspect or just having a nice run round some paths on a sunny day.
So I am looking forward to a nice day out (on a short course) and accept paying for this. Everything else is just additional, but I would pay more for a guarantee of a sunny but slightly cool day!

[andypat]

You need to decide if you think O needs a governing body and if they generally do a good job. I believe the answer is yes to both questions. I am aware that this is one of there major potential sources of income and do not begrudge them it. I should really support them more by entering late but that is possibly pushing the point a bit far. If you strongly object to them raising money this way then take it up though the appropriate channels or though the AGM. You do need to have some good alternatives though or some alternative budgets...

I think there's a fairly strong undercurrent in Scotland (not everyone for sure) which, if I'm being kind, is broadly that if BOF is giving us good value for money and reflecting our views, its not doing a very good job of communicating that to us.

I appreciate that there are complicating factors in the way Sport England funds the English bits of BOF, but even BOF itself doesn't really seem to understand how that works. For example a couple of years ago the "Year in a Box" coaching tool was demonstrated by someone from the British Orienteering Federation to Scottish clubs at the Scottish club development day in Scotland but when we tried to purchase it from the British Orienteering federation we were advised we couldnt as it was funded by Sport England!

[graeme]

You need to decide if you think O needs a governing body and if they generally do a good job. I believe the answer is yes to both questions.

Me too ... Hurrah for SOA

[BenM]

British Relays - Tomorrow is the last day of cheaper entries, if you're planning on running, I'd recommend entering now at http://www.fabian4.co.uk/default.aspx?EventID=1166

[awk]

I can understand some of the increased fees going to the map surveyor and are you also suggesting that the planner and controller have significantly more expenses than a planner and controller at a 'normal' event?

Yes, it's almost inevitable.

I'm the planner for the long day at JK2016. There are very few orienteers who live closer to the area than I do, but that still involves a round trip of 50 miles. The area itself is one of the very few in YHOA that can sustain an event of this size and quality at this time of year. This contrasts with the last 'normal' event I planned, which was 2 miles from where I live on an area I know extremely well.

In addition that 'normal event' had 7 courses and around 40 control sites. JK Day 3 will involve approximately 27 courses, and around 150-200 control sites, across an area 4-5 times larger, to much tighter specifications (I could run round the normal event area's controls in about an hour - I'm struggling to get round all the draft JK sites in a day). All of that , if nothing else, means rather more site visits!

I could go on (and on!) but those figures in themselves should help explain some of the planner's expense differences: one visit to the JK site costs more than my entire expenses for the normal event.

Having said all that, we're not going to the British because of the expense. Not blaming the organisers or anybody else - it's just that with everything else going on this spring/summer, and the cost of long distance orienteering (including travel/accommodation), something had to give, and the British Long Distance (compared to the JK, British Sprint/Middle, Scottish etc) came bottom of the pile. Risk of injury also means that these events that need entering early are becoming less and less attractive too (I've almost certainly wasted the JK individual entrance fee for starters).

I'm relieved that so many others feel they can afford it, and that the event remains sustainable, but I come from a generation where 1200 entries for a British Champs within easy access of such a large orienteering population isn't quite the success that others might see it as - but then is it numbers that the British should be aiming at?

[graeme]

are you also suggesting that the planner and controller have significantly more expenses than a planner and controller at a 'normal' event?

Yes,

No.
e.g. in FOCUS there are accounts for the BMOC. Income £16,500. Officials&volunteer expenses £243: that's 1.5% of the budget. Insignificant.
Double it: still insignificant.
Free T-shirts for officials costs as much as flyering an event.
But pay commercial rates for skilled people and you wipe out the whole budget.

To a first approximation, it costs nothing to be nice to volunteers and officials.

[andy]

But pay commercial rates for skilled people and you wipe out the whole budget.

To a first approximation, it costs nothing to be nice to volunteers and officials.

Not just a t-shirt or being nice, but I find a well organised event makes everyone's job easier and happier and will encourage them to volunteer again. I'd rather volunteer at a well organised event than work at a poorly organised one.

[awk]

are you also suggesting that the planner and controller have significantly more expenses than a planner and controller at a 'normal' event?

Yes,

No.

Er, yes! The question wasn't whether the planner/controller's expenses were a signficant part of the budget, but whether they were significantly more than at a 'normal' event.

The BMOC got lucky if that was the sum total of their volunteer expenses. I suspect that that £243 will be exceeded by my expenses alone for JK 2016 Day 3 - and I am being careful!.

Of course, events vary, but in both absolute and percentage terms, my expenses will be greater for the JK than for the last couple of normal events I've done.

But in both cases, I agree with the implication that they represent a very small part of the income.

[Big Jon]

Of course it depends whether you think you will/should be charging expenses to the event you are planning/organising/controlling.......
I regard some costs as planner/org/cont etc as being part of the cost of my involvement in my chosen sport..... the best sport!

[graeme]

Of course it depends whether you think you will/should be charging expenses to the event you are planning/organising/controlling.......

...or mapping?
To save Scott the bother of repeating his normal line, not everyone can afford to be as generous as you, and while we might choose not to claim expenses, I wouldn't criticise anyone who did.

[awk]

Of course it depends whether you think you will/should be charging expenses to the event you are planning/organising/controlling.......
I regard some costs as planner/org/cont etc as being part of the cost of my involvement in my chosen sport..... the best sport!

I have certainly written off trivial expenses in the past (trivial being in the eye of the beholder). However, I don't think any volunteer should ever be made to feel that it's morally wrong for them to claim expenses, rather the opposite. To do anything else gives orienteers a completely false impression of the cost of putting an event on.

I have no compunction in making it clear that I am, and will be, claiming expenses for my planning work for JK2016. As Graeme touches on, if nothing else I cannot afford to do otherwise. I am more than happy to give my time freely, now into the hundreds of hours.

[Marian]

And you can always claim your expenses but ask for them to be paid to an organisation of your choice - your local Junior Squad for example.