JWOC/EYOC selections

[buzz]

I'm not going to list the names of teenage orienteers who burnt out, overtrained, became anorexic etc. etc. But you know as well as I do that it's not short, and nor is it something BO would dare mention in public. It's not short in cross country either, and for all Jackie's inability to "become acquainted" with the needs of orienteers, she has a lot of experience on that particular issue.

This decision may disappoint a number of MW16s who have targeted EYOC for this year. However we feel we can enhance the development of these athletes and make better use of our resources by inviting MW16s to a summer camp enabling staff to pitch the training at the appropriate level.

There you go Graeme another camp for the already busy summer months - just what the athletes want

[Mrs H]

So! If the reason for the decision is as stated in the latest announcement then how does this sit within that rationale?

If there are exceptional athletes in MW16 they may be considered for EYOC MW18 and may be advised to enter the 18 age class races at the JK which is the primary selection event for EYOC.

[graeme]

There you go Graeme another camp for the already busy summer months - just what the athletes want

Ah, but it's a appropriate camp . Maybe it's targeted at appropriate terrain for JEC 2016 which is obviously going to be fantastic. especially the Graham and Graeme UKCup encore sprint show

[SJC]

However we feel we can enhance the development of these athletes and make better use of our resources by inviting MW16s to a summer camp enabling staff to pitch the training at the appropriate level.

Didn't BOF run one of these (as well as entering teams for EYOC) until they decided that the summer junior training camps weren't something they wanted to be involved in ?

[Scott]

BO is spending hundreds of thousands of pounds of tax payers money

It's lottery-players' money, which admittedly doesn't have quite the same emotional appeal.

And the problem is we have two programs competing to do that, neither of which seems willing to talk to the other.

....and whose fault is that?

Having seen some of this close up, I would say there's more than enough blame to go around.

[mharky]

I do not think that sending M/W16s to EYOC is a good idea.

That is my personal opinion. I had nothing to do with the decision, but I support it.

When I was an M16 the JK, British, JIRCs, JHIs and Halden tour was plenty to be aiming for. Current 16s now have another British Champs, and potentially 2 tours.

[JK]

So! If the reason for the decision is as stated in the latest announcement then how does this sit within that rationale?

If there are exceptional athletes in MW16 they may be considered for EYOC MW18 and may be advised to enter the 18 age class races at the JK which is the primary selection event for EYOC.

This is a bit weird. If an MW16 is so good that they can compete against the MW18s and gain a place at one of their expenses ... then should they not compete at EYOC in their own age class rather than a higher one where they have less chance of a decent position.

[buzz]

I do not think that sending M/W16s to EYOC is a good idea.

That is my personal opinion. I had nothing to do with the decision, but I support it.

When I was an M16 the JK, British, JIRCs, JHIs and Halden tour was plenty to be aiming for. Current 16s now have another British Champs, and potentially 2 tours.

The main issue is the timing - MW16s in the talent squad were encouraged to plan for EYOC and others outside the squad reasonably assumed it would be in the programme. I hope that you will support deferring any changes until next year.

Interesting that you weren't consulted I would have thought the opinions of the Technical Talent Coach would have been valued.

[andypat]

I do not think that sending M/W16s to EYOC is a good idea.

That is my personal opinion. I had nothing to do with the decision, but I support it.

Poacher/gamekeeper

[Snail]

What did the Selection document say about EYOC when it was first issued in December? If it said then that 16s would be taken, and that how now changed, then agree it is poor expectation management from BOF. If it said 'to be decided', and the decision is now No, then it is perhaps just unfortunate.

An individual's coach, more so than 15/16s themselves, should know that programmes change and communicate that message - it is hardly the first time it has happened, and moans rarely arise when something is added

I don't think it should necessarily be surprising that (a) some changes would arise with a largely new talent / performance team at BOF; or (b) that particularly in a home WOC year the (always) limited resources might be biased slightly more towards the WOC team.

[SJC]

What did the Selection document say about EYOC when it was first issued in December?

Although dated December the document wasn't published until last week.
Until then there was no reason for anyone to suspect that M/W16 teams would not be sent to EYOC as in previous years.

[Street]

Britain did not send teams to EYOC when I was 16 but I did get the opportunity to go as an 18.

EYOC 2007 (Hungary):

You can find the full results of the races here: http://lazarus.elte.hu/tajfutas/history ... oc2007.htm

You can find the Nopesport fallout from this here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8067

Jason makes an interesting comment:

If half of them are not in the JWOC team in two years time I will be surprised. If a quarter get into the senior squad at the end of their junior careers I will be pleased too.

One could argue that the squad system now is significantly different to the senior squad referred to so WOC participation is also listed below.

My memories of this EYOC are that it was very cool to get lots of GB kit. It was an adventure (I went between GCSE exams). I had very little idea of what I was doing. The racing was a rather horrible experience (It was a rather massive shock to realise that these foreigners were pretty good).

My international orienteering experience at the time was limited to some Interland races, World Schools (Slovakia), 2 weeks in Halden (although we didn't race against any locals).

GB Team at EYOC 2007:
Alice Butt (went on to do JWOC) – 14 long, 48 sprint
Anwen Darlington – 48 long, 69 sprint
Jo Halliday – 42 long, 46 sprint
Hazel Wright (JWOC) – 33 long, 23 sprint

Tom Beasant – 67 long, 75 sprint
Mikey Hopkins – 55 long, 79 sprint
Mike Noblett – 43 long, 47 sprint
Ralph Street (JWOC, WOC, current GB squad) – 66 long, 54 sprint

3/8 JWOC, 1/8 Current GB Squad, 1/8 WOC

The following year EYOC (Switzerland) moved to October and I personally had a much better overall experience. I had a lot more international experience, JWOC Sweden, O-ringen, 2 weeks in Uppsala, at least 1 week in Italy, French 5 days.

Results available here: http://www.o-l.ch/cgi-bin/results?type= ... nt=Auswahl

GB Team at EYOC 2008: (We took 16s to this one (possibly first time ever), and the 20s were around doing an “Open Junior Match”)
16s
Kirsty Coombs – 41 long, 59 sprint
Sophie Kirk – 59 long, 72 sprint
Abi Longhurst – 27 long, 73 sprint
Charlotte Watson (JWOC, current GB squad) – 26 long, 43 sprint

18s
Julia Blomquist (JWOC) – 46 long
Mairead Rocke (JWOC) – 34 long
Hazel Wright (JWOC) – 37 long

16s
Duncan Birtwistle (JWOC) – 7 long, DNF Sprint
Jonathon Crickmore (JWOC, current GB Squad) – 5 long, 43 sprint
Tom Fellbaum (JWOC) – 35 long, 73 sprint
Jamie Stevenson (JWOC) – 38 long, 7 sprint

18s
Matt Halliday (JWOC) – 26 long, 53 sprint
Peter Hodkinson (JWOC, current GB Squad) – 29 long, 30 sprint
Kris Jones (JWOC, WOC, current GB Squad) – DNF long, 1 sprint
Ralph Street (JWOC, WOC, current GB Squad) – 28 long, 7 sprint

20s
Anne Edwards (JWOC, watch squad) – 17 long
Hollie Orr (JWOC, WOC, current GB Squad) – 12 long

Hector Haines (JWOC, WOC, current GB Squad) – 15 long
Dave Schorah (JWOC, current GB Squad) – 20 long
Doug Tullie (JWOC, WOC, current GB Squad) – 16 long

excl. 20s - 12/15 JWOC, 5/15 Current GB Squad, 2/15 WOC

EYOC (Serbia) 2009:

http://lazarus.elte.hu/tajfutas/history ... oc2009.htm

16s
Florence Haines (JWOC, watch squad) – 38 sprint, 33 long
Katrin Harding (JWOC) – 23 sprint, 42 long
Aine McCann (JWOC for Ireland) – 62 sprint, 24 long
Charlotte Watson (JWOC, current GB squad) – 8 sprint, 29 long

18s
Rebecca Harding (JWOC, watch squad) – 14 sprint, 69 long
Jessica Orr – 47 sprint, 67 long

16s
Jack Benham – 60 sprint, 39 long
Peter Bray (JWOC, current GB squad) – 49 sprint, 22 long
Jonathon Crickmore (JWOC, current GB squad) – 5 sprint, 11 long
Finlay Lagan – 30 sprint, 71 long

18s
Alan Cherry (JWOC, current GB squad) – 62 sprint, 41 long
Jamie Stevenson (JWOC) – 10 sprint, 50 long

8/12 JWOC, 4/12 Current GB Squad, 0/12 WOC

EYOC (Slovenia) 2006:

http://www.orientacijska-zveza.si/english/eyoc2006.html

Emily Benham (mtb) – 31 long, 49 sprint
Jenni Hoare – 16 long, 39 sprint
Victoria Stevens (JWOC) – 54 long, 51 sprint
Cat Taylor (WOC, current GB Squad) – 25 long, 10 sprint

Rhodri Buffett (JWOC, WOC) – 60 long, 50 sprint
Hector Haines (JWOC, WOC, current GB Squad) – 49 long, DNS sprint
John Rocke (JWOC) – 50 long, 20 sprint
Dave Schorah (current GB Squad) – 62 long, 59 sprint

4/8 JWOC, 3/8 Current GB Squad, 2/8 WOC

EYOC (Czech) 2005:

http://www.eyoc2005.wz.cz/

Stef Blomquist – 52 long, 47 sprint
Tessa Hill (JWOC, WOC, current GB Squad) – 39 long, 46 sprint
Rose Hodkinson (JWOC)– 15 long, 71 sprint
Ruth Holmes (JWOC, WOC, current GB Squad) – 54 long, 11 sprint

Kyle Heron – 54 long, 57 sprint
Doug Tullie (JWOC, WOC, current GB Squad) – 21 long, 35 sprint
John Rocke (JWOC) - 69 long, 73 sprint
Dave Schorah (current GB Squad) - 64 long, 54 sprint

5/8 JWOC, 4/8 Current GB Squad, 3/8 WOC

Apologies if any of my assertions about JWOC attendance are wrong.

[buzz]

I hope that Jackie is big enough to recognise this as a mistake that can be easily rectified.

Not looking likely given the new announcement which has just appeared on the BO website:

http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/i ... 9yZy51ay8=

I'm beginning to think that Jackie had nothing to do with the decision. The announcement on the web site is from Mike and he attributes the decision to the T&P Steering Group. I can't believe that Jackie would have allowed the MW16s to use EYOC as their target for their year plans if she'd planned to cut it from the program.

It feels like an accounting decision to me as the other reasons given are contradictory and nonsensical. I would have thought there's plenty of fat in the programme if they are looking for cost savings.

I haven't heard back from Jackie yet so I'm hoping she's fighting the athlete's corner and can get the decision deferred until next year, so that expectations and aspirations can be properly set.

[RS]

Rhodri Buffett was at WOC (think it was in Hungary?) He ran the long qualifier.

[buzz]

Great post Ralph - I trust the Steering Group were as well informed statistically.

I think the rest of Jasons post is worth including

A trip like EYOC is there to make athletes aware of what's required to compete at the top level. It's not there for us to produce top results at necessarily. I was pleased to know that the group learnt a hell of a lot from the weekend. If half of them are not in the JWOC team in two years time I will be surprised. If a quarter get into the senior squad at the end of their junior careers I will be pleased too.

If our 16s could go to such a competition and see the divide between top Brits and top Europeans then maybe we could see first year 18s training harder and more focused than they currently are. And, maybe, 20s going to JWOc will be even better prepared than they currently are.

But, at the end of it all, it's about where juniors go afterwards - if we can continue to feed the seniors with a small number of hard working, committed athletes then the system will have achieved its objectives.

A clear vision for long term athlete development.

Its not about results - its about experience and motivation and not just for the athletes that go either, but for their peers, their regional squads and coaches and their clubs. Nor should a T&P programme be seen in isolation it should contribute to and benefit from the development of the sport as a whole.

Before Christmas we organised a training session for beginners as a pre-cursor to our club's junior training sessions and I shamelessly used two former EYOC competitors to add some colour and excitement to the session. One was a current senior 'superstar' the other a junior 'star' who was herself a beginner a few years ago, both had inspirational stories that make orienteering sound like an attractive sport for kids and parents alike. We now have nearly 50 kids coming to regular coaching sessions - mostly new BO members.