Orienteering's cool younger brother?

[SeanC]

Although clubs won't be offering £500 prizes, lots of the other elements look quite doable - mass start score event with some social where everyone mixes, and something else with a bit of a buzz. As LostAgain says, lots of clubs do events that do tick these boxes. In fact I may even have a hog roast this Thursday night's Kent Night Cup at Petts Wood (Harvester gammon steak and chips ).

Where Paul Frost has a point I suspect is the mainstream weekend events. Unfortunately too many of these are the traditional colour coded line format, even for level D local events. I think in general the balance is wrong. Colour coded events are good for children and adults to just want to do technical orienteering on their own or with a family, but not very good for adult newcomers or people who want socialising.

A good balance (for weekend events) IMHO would be about 60% traditional line courses and 40% other formats that appeal to a wider market (such as mass start scores + pub afterwards). Clubs need to have a long hard look at their event program and think about putting on a range of events that appeal to new and old markets rather than churning out the same stuff they've done for the past 20 years.

[Dave]

Paul, I understand your scepticism but I really think you're coming at this from the wrong way.

Your club's local event near Aviemore may have been brilliant. But will all due respect, a new map, great terrain, well planned courses etc mean bugger all to someone who hasn't been orienteering at all yet.

Yes Red Bull have gone into this knowing they're spending £10k for no real return (The entry was not a fee, it was a donation to charity) but 10k is nothing to a company of that size and their business model is publicity through exciting/extreme events and this fits.

In terms of what British Orienteering gets out of it: It has the potential to bring in the newcomers of the age group that's missing from Orienteering. Whilst reiterating that this race was a tough challenge it doesn't hide away from the fact it is a novelty event. Yet it's the novelty that is going to attract 18-35 year olds. And if you read the [mostly non-orienteer] comments on the facebook page you'll notice a fair few people saying how they actually really enjoyed the orienteering aspect.

The problem, as you will surely be well aware, is getting people to actually try orienteering and give it a go 2 or 3 times then they generally have decided if it's something they're interested in pursuing. This type of event seems like a much more successful way of getting that first contact than any local club Come and try it events I've seen.

The other big positive from this event was that the race was only half of it. There was ample food, drink, space and shelter for everyone to socialise for a few hours afterwards. Greatly helped by the mass start format but how many 'normal' events provide this apres-O experience? Given this is something anyone from a team sport would be used to, maybe it needs to be more strongly considered if people are serious about trying to engage young people with O.

As for Red Bull's gain, they've just had a couple of hundred people raving about how cool their event was and telling countless others, for very little cost. I think they'd consider that job done.

[Paul Frost]

It's not scepticism, it's the reality that Red Bull are not going to replicate this in 80 odd locations (each club). So in Aviemore we are unlikely to be offering such an event and so can't use it as a model to attract newcomers. We could put on a novelty type event with a bit of archery and a few other bits and pieces but it's not going to look as impressive because we don't have £1000's to throw at it. So the risk is it could look a bit sad and cheap and make us look even more unattractive to the cool kids.

We are looking at what sort of events we could put on that may be attractive to non-orienteers and partnering up with running or triathlon clubs to share volunteering help and try and cross pollinate people to try other things. So this event has thrown a few other thoughts into the pot.

But taking up Sean's comments about our traditional event not being very attractive to newcomers, we also have to remember that most organisers & planners like this sort of event and that's why they volunteer their time to put them on. If they don't particularly want to take part in a novelty type event they are probably less inclined to give their time putting one on. So if you have a club full of traditional orienteers who is going to put on these events that may not be attractive to the existing membership?

This dilemma has been going on ever since I started orienteering 14 years ago. Most existing orienteers would like to see the sport expand and be more popular, but they would prefer if it stayed being the sport it has always been. Modifying it to being a mass start, mass participation event is against the fundamental basis of orienteering, individuals against the clock without any outside assistance in terrain unknown to you. That's why there are rules about having gaps between competitors so you can't follow them and embargoes on area so you don't get prior knowledge. In theory, asking for directions from another competitor should be a disqualifiable offence, but it goes on. I'm one of those sad people that think all the shouting of "it's over here" you see so often on the continent lowers my enjoyment of the sport.
So if mass start, score style events became the norm I would probably leave the sport and take my volunteering time with me.

[graeme]

Dave,

I think your analysis is generally right, but in one thing you are wrong.

a new map, great terrain, well planned courses etc mean bugger all to someone who hasn't been orienteering at all yet.

All of these things are absolutely critical to someone who hasn't been orienteering at all yet. It's just that they don't know it. A crappy inaccurate map and dreadful courses simply reinforce all the negative stereotypes from outdoor centres round the country and seen at too many "adventure races" and CATIs (Not BASoC CATIs, I hasten to add).

Clearly Andy planned good courses and I presume NOC made available an up to date map. Sherwood Pines is an excellent area for orienteering if you want a particular demographic it's just an issue of marketing and format.

Most existing orienteers ... would prefer if it stayed being the sport it has always been.

For example, how it was ten years ago when I planned there .
The pressure of head to head racing can make an area like Sherwood exciting to a 21-40 demographic even at the elite level....all we need do now is convince people that the orienteering was cool and the onion catapulting is a bit sh*t. How hard can that be?

£10k well spent for Red Bull advertising, and the levy and non-member surcharge deftly dodged by a "donation to charity" ruse*. It would be nice if BOF gave similar freedom to experiment to its members.

* Since SOA is a charity, can we have our RtC levies back please?

[Mrs H]

It would be nice if BOF gave similar freedom to experiment to its members.

How very true - I still have not forgiven BOF for sabotaging the Malvern Initiative with their greed. I signed up over 50 new members in the space of 6 months only to loose most of them once their one year's free BOF membership was up and they were forced to be national members. I would have held on to most of them if they could have continued at club rates - this I know because they carried on coming as Inds for the 3-4 years that the Malvern Mini League continued afterwards. After that I just couldn't see the point.

[Lard]

Could BO not support a local club & regional membership with BO costs just covering access to website and insurance fees only?

Clearly at FVO-land we have no shortage of "locals" who just want to go to the low-key club events and stay local. But, currently, there's no membership arrangement that suits this very large sector of orienteers....

[SeanC]

Paul - I have the greatest respect for your contribution to the sport, but I think your fears are unnecessary.

Just to recap, I suggest that clubs should consider a 60%/40% split for their weekend events, ie more than half still being the traditional line, 1 minute interval type events aimed at experienced orienteers, with 40% being other events appealing to a wider audience.

DFOK started a 7 event weekend mass start score series a few years ago, and there's been no problem finding organisers. In fact I think it's helped the traditional events as these mass start score events tend to be easy to plan and organise, so a perfect place for new organisers to start. Yes some DFOK members will drive past these events to get to traditional events run by other clubs, but this is entirely healthy. There are also some people who just do the local scores and don't do the technical orienteering.

The key thing is for the club to have vision and leadership. Most experienced orienteers then be supportive, even if they don't want to do these events themselves.

Another way is for clubs to encourage innovation without prescribing what this innovation is. In every club there are creative people who will want to organise events using their own ideas. They just need encouragement. Clubs could designate say 20% of their events as "whatever format the organiser(s) want to do", then promote this to their members (+ the practical support where wanted). Some people love to be creative, but being told the date and venue, then being given a 50 page organisers manual will turn them off.

This approach again needs good leadership as it may mean letting these innovators choose the date and venue, and letting them try things that might seem embarrassing to others. It also means protecting them from any "club characters" who might try and interfere, or feel threatened by such innovation and cause a fuss.

[Arnold]

In addition to learning from the event format, the biggest "win" would be if Red Bull included orienteering in their list of "cool sports" used in marketing - say in an ad or a promo video or whatever

They could reach thousands (millions?) of people who might never have heard of orienteering or have but think it's something to do with the scouts.

If only a small percentage of that demographic would come along to a normal orienteering event that would be amazing. Even if all the frills aren't provided, there's still the challenge of completing the course and some of them will stick around

[roadrunner]

I think there may be some slow improvement in the general public's perception of what orienteering is; several times recently, in urban events, when I've been running past members of the public, I've heard them comment "they're orienteering", rather than running, out for a jog, what are those idiots up to, etc. And this wasn't just at big events like the London City Race, where there was a lot of publicity. Not much, maybe, but a step in the right direction, and the Red Bull event might be the same.

Also, I don't know about that particular event, but I know that some of my friends travel quite long distances to do similar endurance/adventure races, so I don't think the Red Bull type event necessarily has to be replicated in that many locations to reach a wide audience (though I'd agree that Aviemore is a bit out on a limb).

[andy]

As Graeme (RtC) or Oleg/Scott (PWT in 2010) will tell you it's not easy getting sponsorship for major events.

Now that Red Bull have had an intro to the sport how do we get them, or any other big company, on board to get involved in bigger events, to both our and their benefit? Do we need to go down a route like this of getting them to organise their own races, or can we get them into sponsoring pre-existing major races like BOC/JK/re-established UK Cup?

[graeme]

Red Bull were among the many companies who turned me down as a "major sponsor" . Probably I could have gone back with an ask for a few free samples, but I didn't try.
I'm disappointed, if not surprised, that BOF didn't tell RaceTheCastles that redbull were interested in a catapults-and-archery themed O-event with the potential for coll coptercam coverage. Maybe they thought they'd get more exposure in Sherwood Forest than in Central Edinburgh?

I went back to [url="www.runandbecome.com/"] Run and Become [\url] last weekend, and they were delighted with their sponsorship deal "It was bedlam in here on RtC day". They offered 10% off to anyone with a training map, and were surprised that people wanted to keep their map, because, to be honest, it wasn't much more than an advertising flyer for the shop.

Our other sponsors, Homecoming2014, ActivCity, Nairns, Stoats, Walkers, Tunnocks, Illegal Jacks, Edinburgh University, Deeside O-maps, GGmaps, Tiso, Scottish 6-day company, durtyevents, gave about as much as we got from entries. I believe they'll all be pleasantly surprised at what they got from us (helped by the fact that they're all cracking good products of course:) .

[SJC]

Could BO not support a local club & regional membership with BO costs just covering access to website and insurance fees only?

With BOF membership now £5.00 isn't this low enough ?
It then comes down to how much the club and region want to charge.
Set both to zero and collect the money through the entry fees and you can present the £5.00 to new members as the cost of joining the club with BOF membership thrown in.