England win VHI 2014

[Duncan]

Last time I posted here to suggest England had won a home international it turned out the scoring had been done wrongly, and actually the Scots had won. This time I'm fairly certain, whichever way you dice it, England won the VHIs in the sunny Forest of Dean this weekend (the individual, the relays, and overall). Scotland second, Wales third, Ireland fourth. My first VHI as an M35. Great weekend, less undergrowth than expected (less than last weekend I gather!), indeed the relays today went through some really interesting and nice bits of the forest, good organisation (especially the catering last night, with help from BOK juniors). Results: http://ngocweb.com/caddihoe/results/

[Homer]

So after JHI and VHI it's Scotland 1 England 1.

Decider in 5 weeks at SHI (combined with Race the Castles).

[Big Jon]

I'll bet on Scotland to do it at the SHIs, home territory, tough areas.... no contest.

[Homer]

I'm not so sure. England are up for it this year.

It will be particularly pleasing to give you a kicking on your own patch if you've voted Yes this week.

[IanD]

And for those of us not selected for the Internationals, still a good weekend. Would perhaps have been even better at a different time of year, but NGOC showed that given the right area it is still possible to have really good forest events in September. Nice to have some proper "classic" courses, long legs with meaningful route choices.

Many thanks to all concerned. Looking forward to the British Championships in the next block of forest.

[Gnitworp]

Nice to have some proper "classic" courses

Anyone interested in joining a movement to resurrect the concept?

[graeme]

proper "classic" courses.
Anyone interested in joining a movement to resurrect the concept?

Still alive and well up here

[Gnitworp]

Keep them coming

[Jethro]

8.1km in 56mins at Craig a' Barns - hardly classic distance!

[afterthought]

By "classic" we mean proper length?

There were some quick winning times in the VHI on Saturday. Bear in mind the VHI runs before the main event, so the athletes have the disadvantages of an early start. On Blue, Scotland's Martin Dean winner on M55 was under 45 minutes, the Scots' 1-2 on M60, Rob Hickling and Eddie Harwood, and Helen Winskill, the English winner of W40, were under 50 mins. So I agree with Jethro, at least for the Blue course.

The fact that it was two successive days racing might have been a consideration.

It was a splendid event. Unfair to pick out just one thing maybe but I thought the relays were superbly done.

[IanD]

By "classic" I meant the traditional course planning style. Including long legs with significant and meaningful route choice. By "meaningful" I meant a choice of routes which were different in character, rather than a near 50/50 choice of different track combinations.

Course length is a different issue.

[afterthought]

How would it work to score England vs Ireland/Scotland/Wales?

I realise these calculations are fraught with risk, but it seems the answer is, it is very close.

In the individual, scoring 4-3-2-1 for the two English against the best two from I/S/W (and 3-1 in the single runner 35 and 65 classes)
The English men lose 28-30.
The English women lose 28-29 (it would have been a tie had an English runner not mispunched when visiting a control immediately after another runner.)
After Day 1 it is 56-59.

In the relays, scoring 12-10-8-6-4-2 in each, the best three English teams vs the best 3 I/S/W.
The 2 men relay has England 2nd, 4th and 5th - for 20 vs 22. (Scotland 1st, Wales 3rd, Scotland 6th.)
The 2 women relay has England 1st, 3rd and 5th - for 24 vs 18. (Ireland 2nd, Scotland 4th, Wales 6th.)
Relay total 44-40.

Total England 100, I/S/W 99.

[Gnitworp]

By "classic" I meant the traditional course planning style.

A 'style' that (for any given course length) exploits the potential of an area to its maximum, provides a sustained and varied orienteering challenge testing all techniques as far as possible, maximizes the number of decision points per leg and the need for continuous concentration, and demonstrates the advantages of removing unnecessary controls rather than adding them,

contrasting planning 'styles' that, for example, place special emphasis on testing the ability to leave a large number of controls in the correct direction, coping with frequent direction changes and distance judgement, where removing 'unnecessary' controls is not encouraged (Middle), or place special emphasis on major (often decisive) long-leg route choice decisions to contrast the skills expressly tested in a 'Middle' race
(Long)

I see danger in over-emphasizing the contrasting characteristics of the Middle and Long 'styles' to the detriment of producing truly challenging courses where the planner is unhampered by 'style' dogma in using imagination and flair to maximum effect.

JEP - Three times BOF National Armchair Course Planning Champion when we had to set 'Classic' courses. Also came second in a later Middle Course competition set by Martin Bagness in CompassSport (didn't win because I only had one control in the slow run/walk forest, he said - fair enough) - deliberately set the best possible course I could on the area making no concessions to a special 'middle concept' to see how well I would do with it

[Simon]

Photos, from Barny

[Parkino]

see danger in over-emphasizing the contrasting characteristics of the Middle and Long 'styles' to the detriment of producing truly challenging courses where the planner is unhampered by 'style' dogma in using imagination and flair to maximum effect.

I agree completely, Gnitworp.

I must have a look at the Caddihoe/VHI courses. The Forest of Dean is well-suited to long route choice legs.