Junior European Cup 2014

[buzz]

Selections announced for JEC. Good to see full teams.

Congratulations to all the selected athletes.

Men 20
Dane Blomquist (M18) - BAOC
Christopher Galloway – INT/EUOC
Ben Maliphant – BOK/ShUOC
Adam Potter - BOK
William Rigg (M18) - LOC
Joe Woodley (M18) - AIRE

Non Travelling Reserve: Mark Purkis - SAX

Women 20
Carrie Beadle - LOC
Lucy Butt – SARUM/UDOC
Julie Emmerson (W18) - OD
Florence Haines – AIRE/EUOC
Tamsin Moran – SOC/ShUOC
Katie Reynolds – SBOC/EUOC

None Travelling Reserve: NONE

Men 18
Michael Adams - SYO
Andrew Barr – MOR
Alexander Chepelin - GRAMP
Nathan Lawson - OD
Tim Morgan - SOC
Daniel Stansfield - FVO

None Travelling Reserve: Thomas Wilson - CLYDE

Women 18

Natalie Beadle - LOC
Megan Carter Davies - MWOC
Hannah Cox - LEI
Sarah Jones - LOC
Helen Ockenden - SROC
Alice Rigby - CLOK

Non Travelling Reserve: Jennifer Ricketts - MAROC

[Homer]

Yes, great to see a full team this year. Congratulations to those selected, especially those running for GB for the first time.

But. The selection letter states that the tour is fully self funded and that the personal contribution will be 'in the region of £500'. This is for a 3 day weekend in Belgium. The JEC website says that the entry fee, including accommodation and all meals, is Euro195 per competitor. Flights to Belgium (from Manchester) are currently available for around £50 return. So where is the rest of the £500 going? I understand the tour needs to be self-funded and that the cost of taking support staff also needs to be covered but can't understand how this can get anywhere near £500 per competitor. By comparison England competitors pay around £100 to represent their country at Interland, a similar weekend event in Northern Europe.

I wonder how many athletes will accept/can afford to take up their selection? Bart has been told he needs to find himself a job!

[frostbite]

Last year people were arguing that our juniors should have the opportunity to self-fund to get to JEC, like the Swedes and Norwegians who were paying £750 for the privilege.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13969

Now that you have the opportunity it turns out it costs too much. What you have to ask yourself is:

Are you a middle class parent prepared to buy opportunities for your children?
Is Bart going on this trip because one day he aspires to be an international athlete, or because he fancies a trip abroad enjoying himself?
Will he make the most of the opportunity you are buying for him?
Won’t getting a job get in the way of all the training he is doing?

£500 does seem a lot for a weekend in Belgium. Possibly BOF could work a bit harder to reduce costs. As you say it is easy enough to find a budget airline to fly you out there, but you have to coordinate juniors from all over the country and not everybody is going to get a flight into Charleroi. Maybe if all travel was left up to individuals then it would work out cheaper, but if everybody has to fly into Brussels/Amsterdam/Dusseldorf it won't be so cheap. And if the support staff are funded out of the athlete’s contributions, maybe £500 is realistic.

At least Lisa isn't going as well.

[andy]

was it not just a few weeks ago we were moaning that self-funded places to JWOC weren't available for the 3 empty women's places? Congratulations to those selected, I'm sure it'll be a great experience fighting for medals!

[Homer]

My point was entirely about the seemingly high personal contribution. I'm very happy that the powers-that-be seem to have listened to the membership and are sending full teams and maximising experience.

What worries me is the apparent lack of regard to value for money within BO. Previous experience of this is Bart being bought a full price adult train ticket (for travel to a BO training camp) when he was only 15. We could have got him there (by train) for about £100 less than BO paid.
Now we have the prospect of paying another couple of hundred quid more than appears necessary for this trip. For £500 I could take him there myself and do the spectator races. I'm not happy with what this is teaching our youngsters about the value of money. It also raises concerns about how well spent the rest of the BO budget is.

Now that you have the opportunity it turns out it costs too much. What you have to ask yourself is:

Are you a middle class parent prepared to buy opportunities for your children?
Is Bart going on this trip because one day he aspires to be an international athlete, or because he fancies a trip abroad enjoying himself?
Will he make the most of the opportunity you are buying for him?
Won’t getting a job get in the way of all the training he is doing?

The answers:
Yes definitely.
Unfortunately probably the latter.
Not sure.
Not really, but it would be difficult given his full-on schedule of o'ing over the summer.

[buzz]

Is Bart going on this trip because one day he aspires to be an international athlete, or because he fancies a trip abroad enjoying himself?

Unfortunately probably the latter.

Homer - I think you're perhaps being a little hard on young Bart, but if you're right lets hope he gets inspired by the experience.

Frostbite - it is OK to enjoy yourself when you're orienteering even at an international event

[Scott]

I wonder how many athletes will accept/can afford to take up their selection?

From a mix of personal experiences:

Many (all?) associations will pay part (half?) of a junior's fees for selected tours/competitions (although I'm not sure what the deal is in YHOA). If you're lucky you might get something out of your club as well.

You will almost certainly be able to find local charitable trusts/funds who may be willing to contribute towards costs for a young sportsman representing his country, although a carefully worded application letter is vital.

Most of those selected will be attached to some educational institution. Most of the universities and a surprising number of state schools will have similar funds you could apply to, although you may have to dig a little to find it. (I have no idea about independent schools.)

You would be surprised at the number of local businesses who could be persuaded to stump up £50 or £100 sponsorship for a young athlete in return for a mention on your blog and in the articles you send to the local paper before you go and on your return. A few carefully targeted and suitably tailored emails could pay dividends.

And that's before you've got on to any of the raffles, cake sales, car washes, car boot sales or other time honoured ways of young-people-raising-money-to-go-on-worthy-foreign-trips.

Any athlete who tries all that and still ends up paying the whole £500 out of their own pocket is very unlucky indeed.

[Arnold]

The question of why it should cost £500 remains unanswered though. Surely someone must have an explanation as it does sound extremely high to go to Belgium for the weekend, and must act as a deterrent to some families who would otherwise happily support their kids.

Is there not an option then to truly self fund, ie organise your own trip for your own money ? (And if need be pay a small contribution towards a coach, although surely that bit could be funded by BOF?)

[graeme]

Is there not an option then to truly self fund,

Yes, if you fancy a trip abroad enjoying yourself, perhaps with some friends, you can enter the public races. If you want to be part of a team then, IMO, you should behave as part of a team.

[Mrs H]

How many children have you got Graeme? 3 or 4 all with their own agenda starts to make the eyes water a bit.

In my opinion self- funding is better than non-selection, but that has to be a realistic amount of self funding and I agree that if BOF are responsible for the selection they should also pay for the staff. I also agree with Scott that a certain amount of rooting around for funds should turn up some returns. But £500 for a long weekend in Belgium is ridiculous.

[andy]

Can BOF win?

[Gross]

I have organised more team / group trips abroad than most people. Organising a team event certainly costs more than arranging a group trip to the same venue.

I have no idea of the costings involved for the JEC but to be honest £500 doesn't sound way out of line for a large team traveling.

[Lard]

6 months ago I voluntered to TM a trip to JEC on behalf of JROS - in case BO decided JEC was out of their remit.

Firstly, I'd like to say I'm very pleased to see it's back on and under the auspices of BO (where it should be) and a sizeable team has been selected - juniors need as much exposure to such competitions as they can get (because there aren't many).

I can't remember what I priced but you'll be looking at well over the £400 mark when you take into account flights booked later than ideal, large car hire, assembly fees of staff and athletes, surplus food supplementation, training maps and all the costs of the staff being covered.

It's wise of BO to advertise a figure that hopefully is the very top end of what it will cost - a figure that can be punted for fund raising activities.

I'll be doing my bit to see any FVO-ers get financially supported!

Lard

[Dave]

I don't see why its such a surprise to people that Orienteering is an expensive sport. Were you not all ranting and raving about BOC entry costs a few months ago?

Due to the nature of us competing in a niche sport that no-one in the general public gives a toss about, sponsorship doesn't flood in, so if you want to compete against the best, in a well run event, you have to pay a premium. Unfortunately for a lot of nations (us now included) that comes from the athlete's pockets most of the time, which is why you'll not see much international diversity on the start line of most of the World Cups at the minute.

[housewife]

It's great to see a full JEC team picked.

£500 is a lot of money. Orienteering is a v middle class sport, so a lot of parents can afford
It. If not, I hope the junior is given guidance as to how they might raise the money. Possible sources are their orienteering club. I've belonged to more orienteering clubs than most people, and a lot if them have v large reserves. Then the region might be able to give money itself, or have some ideas about grants that are available locally. If the junior is still having problems raising money I would send an email around the orienteering asking for suggestions. My sister and I both got picked for international races and tours when we were younger. I think there was only one time when we couldn't go as we couldn't afford the personal contribution.

As for £500 being a lot of money. It is a lot, but British orienteering trips are run to a tight budget, and I can't imagine any money is being wasted. We have had a mixture of BO organised trips and self help trips to World Cup races over the past few years. It's so much easier going on a BO trip, where you have one person working out the logistics, booking accomodation, going to the supermarket, organising training areas and maps, going to the team leaders meetings and feeding back, sorting out accreditation and entries, picking up people off flights and dropping them off, meeting you at the finish with your bag. It leaves the athlete only having to focus on training for the race, and the race itself. This is what Dave Rollins does at senior internationals, and we are very grateful indeed to him!