World Champs

[andy]

Is it a known fault with SI that I'm not aware of? If so, how should you make sure your punch is registered? Any thoughts?

It has happened before in notable races (here's another obvious one) and it's been been discussed before on Attackpoint (in 2007!).

The problem for Sportident: there is no way to easily reproduce the problem. It's a 1 in a million problem (no statistical evidence, but it's rare).

If there is a problem and it doesn't work, you should try again or try a different unit if there is one. Pin punch if not. Hollie may well have heard a beep from Wyder's punch and just assumed it was hers. They simply can't reinstate her as it would set the precedent for anyone and everyone who has missed out a control. There has to be a no-reinstatement policy, while the clear-cut cases do lose out the spurious ones don't even get a look in which is how it should be.

Perhaps when we get more use of touch-free systems where the user gets feedback which is more personal we will have less of a problem.

[Meat Market]

Damn I hate being wrong, I'll appease the population of Isle of Man by posting this picture of Jeremy Clarkson:

[maprun]

Thanks Andy, very interesting discussion on AP. As I understand it, there was probably interference from the Wyder SI box that resulted in Hollie's box not working. A rare but known fault with SI units close together and to fix it could be unrealistically expensive. Sounds as though you should only rely on the flash on your own unit, assuming that is not open to errors too!

[andypat]

Thanks Andy, very interesting discussion on AP. As I understand it, there was probably interference from the Wyder SI box that resulted in Hollie's box not working. A rare but known fault with SI units close together and to fix it could be unrealistically expensive. Sounds as though you should only rely on the flash on your own unit, assuming that is not open to errors too!

Sounds as though organisers need to be made aware of it and take it into account in those rare circumstances when it actually happens!

[SJC]

The problem for Sportident: there is no way to easily reproduce the problem. It's a 1 in a million problem (no statistical evidence, but it's rare).

There are also known cases in the UK where the SI SI Card has not had a valid punch shown when downloaded, but on subsequent interrogation the SI box contains the full record of the SI Card correctly punching (i.e. not a "punching too fast" error). This appears to be caused by the correct punch record being overwritten on the SI Card by the next punch.

Is interrogation of the SI boxes allowed at WOC ?

[eddie]

Is interrogation of the SI boxes allowed at WOC ?

Nope don't believe so. Oli got DQed a few years ago and a similar conversation ensued.

[andy]

Is interrogation of the SI boxes allowed at WOC ?

from: http://orienteering.org/wp-content/uplo ... s-2014.pdf

A competitor with a control punch missing or unidentifiable shall not be placed
unless it can be established with certainty that the punch missing or unidentifiable is
not the competitor’s fault. In this exceptional circumstance, other evidence may be
used to prove that the competitor visited the control, such as evidence from control
officials or cameras or read-out from the control unit. In all other circumstances, such
evidence is not acceptable and the competitor must be disqualified. In the case of
SportIdent, this rule means that:
• If one unit is not working, or appears not to be working, a competitor must use
the backup provided and will be disqualified if no punch is recorded.
• If a competitor punches too fast and fails to receive the feedback signals, the card
will not contain the punch and the competitor must be disqualified (even though
the control unit may have recorded the competitor’s card number)

The key is 'established with certainty...not the competitor's fault', you could argue that Hollie heard the beep from Wyder's punch and didn't look for the flash from the unit. In theory they can interrogate/reinstate, even on camera footage alone.

Note I'm arguing as if an official here. If these cases where it's bloody obvious were up to me I'd happily reinstate.

[andypat]

Hmmmmm - goal line technology?

Fifa 1 - 0 IOF

[JK]

alright mate. I think John Kewley may be r-r-r-r-representing the Isle of Man #Cavendish #TT #PeterKennaugh

That would be my preference as I have represented IoM at FR.

No worries @Meat Market - I get confused myself sometimes, but if you check Fabian and SI-Entries I think I am the only one with IOM as my country.

[JK]

Although technically, since neither ID, SJG or myself qualified for the Final of the TempO we don't get "CG medals" for those and we have only had day 1 of the PreO. The virtual table should probably therefore be empty, or at least based only on TempO Qual which
would have a total of 3.

Actually we have been ferrying around our former Commonwealth colleagues from HK ... at least until a certain Frenchman (no, not that one) crashed into the side of our hire car (which was so new it had only 32km on the clock) one evening. They then decided to travel with the Americans.

[Scott]

so if we can get Cyprus' Georgios Andrea to get round in under 4 hours

I know he DNFed in the end, but having watched his GPS track I have to admire a man who can make a 40-minute mistake on the first control and still keep on orienteering for another four hours. It even looked like he managed a sprint down the run-in at the end as well. Definitely deserves some sort of prize for effort.

Edit: 100,000th discussion post? Oh dear.

[david_rosen]

Is interrogation of the SI boxes allowed at WOC ?

Interrogation of SI boxes is allowed at all levels of event. But if the readout shows just an error punch (e.g. 503221 Fr ErrC) that cannot be used to reinstate the runner unless there is some other evidence the control box is not functioning correctly.

[Spookster]

Interesting thread on Attackpoint about the current position of nations (after WOC Long) in the Divisions promotion/relegation fight.
http://www.attackpoint.org/discussionth ... age_973090

[buzz]

Here we go again, Middle underway. Here's the women's course for those without GPS...

WOC Middle Women.jpg (211.22 KiB) Viewed 4504 times

[buzz]

Sadly the GPS coverage is really poor - again!