Whistles and Cagoules

[graeme]

Methinks Daddy should've read the rules & information in the car park & made certain said small child was prepared properly

Deuteronomy 24:16 applies.

[Gnitworp]

Deuteronomy 24:16 applies.

Just looked it up - bit draconian for forgetting your whistle!

[madmike]

Deuteronomy 24:16 applies.

Just looked it up - bit draconian for forgetting your whistle!

Yes but the elegant bit of Grame's solution would be that you could put them to death simply by allowing them to start without a whistle as they will then assuredly be eaten by crocodiles

[graeme]

The point is not whether the injured party carrying a **** would help in all circumstances, it is whether it MAY help in SOME circumstances.

No it isn't. The point is about compulsion, potential organiser liability, and stopping people going orienteering.

If I want to go orienteering without twisting my ankle, my first move is to wear proper orienteering shoes. My second move is to get ankle support - either tape or full-on Activankle-type thing. My third move is to ensure I have appropriate kit to avoid hypo/hyperthermia - on a cold exposed area that would be a cagoule, in a wet forest some kind of thermal, on a hot day some fluids, on a long run some jellybabies. All of these things are available at CompassPoint next to the whistles, and are well known by experienced orienteers to be "best practice". I could add sunglasses, hats, glove, eye protection, spare compass, spare torch, spare map to the list. All of them have/would have been useful to me at least once - a whistle, never. So since they are MORE likely to help in MORE circumstances than a whistle, your argument seems to imply that they should all be compulsory and the organiser should be liable for anybody not taking them.

[Mrs H]

This debate is going nowhere. If I ruled the (orienteering) world I would insist that SportIdent and Emit made all dibbers with integral whistles there by solving the problem at a stroke.

(I'm certain I know of an incident where whistles saved a life by guiding paramedics into the casualty swiftly)

[DaveK]

[quote="Mrs H"]This debate is going nowhere. If I ruled the (orienteering) world



FWIW, my OMM backpack has an 'integral whistle'.

[Meat Market]

Like most folk on here I've figured out in the past that me shouting for help is more likely to get through than the sound of my whistle. Also on a couple of occasions while out running ive made a diversion because ive heard a whistle only to find out that it was a couple of kids messing about. However I'm still quite happy to carry one when asked to because:

a) Most of the general public don't understand orienteering
b) In this country we are very much ruled by knee jerk media reaction to events
b) I like and am an orienteering organiser/planner and I don't want to put them in awkward situations

If the worst happened and someone had a heart attack in the forest and died, I would like the organiser to be able to say to the local/national press: "well we put all sorts of precautions in place, like for example the competitors carry whistles if they get into trouble". Then the newspaper/TV cant print/show a piece about how "these people traipse all over the countryside getting themselves into trouble without any consideration for the poor people who have to rescue them later on" and I don't have to field lots of stupid questions at work like I did after the OMM made national news like "well aren't you worried about hypothermia?" and "what happens if you run off the map?"

So it's another case of us having to pander to the ignorant in society - but unfortunately they are in the majority in this country and the only way I see around it is to get as many people as we can orienteering so they understand why carrying a whistle seems pointless to most of us.

[graeme]

Then the newspaper/TV cant...

If we learned nothing else from the OMM fiasco, surely we noticed that if it suits the media angle to get you, they'll get you.

"These people seem to believe mobile communication hasn't shifted since the 17th century. This paper map and anorak brigade still believe a 50p plastic whistle is the last word in safety! News just in for these so-called "orienteers", the 21st century has sat nav, GPS and mobile phones ".

Someone shy just sent another report to me in the email ...

"These technophobes hold competitions where they choose a plastic whistle worth a few pence as best for ensuring safety of their paying participants, even in this day and age.
It is not that they haven't heard of new-fangled things like GPS-enabled mobile phones, it is much worse than that....even for their top competitions, so called 'world ranking events', such everyday devices are explicitly outlawed.
That's right, you must carry a whistle for safety, but if you are caught carrying your iPhone you will be disqualified.
Chalk one up for the blazer brigade, muddled thinking and the nanny state over modernity, common sense and personal responsibility.".

[pete.owens]

Many years ago when seatbelts first became mandatory there were lots of comments about "big brother", reluctance and it felt odd. Now it's an automatic action to belt up.
Granted, the stats on lives saved / injuries reduced by seatbelts are unequivocal.

Actually, it is a matter of great dispute whether seat belts have saved lives - if you include the population outside cars as well as those inside.

No one disputes that they offer protection to drivers wearing them in the event of a crash - the problem is that when drivers belt up they feel that bit more invulnerable thus that bit less careful to avoid crashing in the first place.

[JK]

"These technophobes hold competitions where they choose a plastic whistle worth a few pence as best for ensuring safety of their paying participants, even in this day and age.
It is not that they haven't heard of new-fangled things like GPS-enabled mobile phones, it is much worse than that....even for their top competitions, so called 'world ranking events', such everyday devices are explicitly outlawed.
That's right, you must carry a whistle for safety, but if you are caught carrying your iPhone you will be disqualified.
Chalk one up for the blazer brigade, muddled thinking and the nanny state over modernity, common sense and personal responsibility.".

LOL (I'm assuming that was sent in gest by a fellow Orienteer).

It's the same with the TdF though, those descents are terriblly fast and steep. In this modern age of disk brakes and fat wheel can you believe that they are banned from using bikes like a Honda Goldwing.

[JK]

Like most folk on here I've figured out in the past that me shouting for help is more likely to get through than the sound of my whistle.

Sometimes under stress/panic/shock people [temporarily] lose the ability to shout whereas they'll likely be able to use a whistle even if they don't remember the international distress signal. Also shout+whistle is an even better way of attracting attention.

If the worst happened and someone had a heart attack in the forest and died, I would like the organiser to be able to say to the local/national press: "well we put all sorts of precautions in place, like for example the competitors carry whistles if they get into trouble".

As a naiive journalist I'd ask what use a whistle would be to someone who is having a heart attack: [engage pessamistic mode] Unless v.close to an AED a cardiac arrest would likely be fatal in any case [exit pessamistic mode]. For other sorts of "heart attack" then unless it was a known condition I suspect they might not be in the right frame of mind to blow a whistle or shout.

But yes, one of the reasons for carrying a whistle is not so you can blow it yourself, but so that you can guarantee if someone finds you unconscious there is guaranteed to be
a whistel for them to blow (if they don't have their own, that may depend on whether they can locate where you have secreted yours of course).

[graeme]

It's the same with the TdF though, those descents are terriblly fast and steep. In this modern age of disk brakes and fat wheel can you believe that they are banned from using bikes like a Honda Goldwing.

Not well supported by evidence, as you should know

[Ant W]

that may depend on whether they can locate where you have secreted yours of course

"Just why were you rummaging in the pants of the injured competitor?"

"I was trying to blow his whistle"

[JK]

It's the same with the TdF though, those descents are terriblly fast and steep. In this modern age of disk brakes and fat wheel can you believe that they are banned from using bikes like a Honda Goldwing.

Not well supported by evidence, as you should know

[RJ]

Just out of interest.... how are you expected to carry this 'whistle' when you are orienteering? Do you have a pocket in the clothing you wear? Surely it isn't expected that you have a loop of string around your neck which you can snag on a branch and hang yourself?