Whistles and Cagoules

[Freefall]

In answer to Eddie:
GPS tracking has proved to be an exciting ingredient in the output available, for spectators in the arena and for those at home with TV or internet, to follow a race. Tracking (edited or not) can be displayed on the big screen in the arena and in live or edited TV transmissions, and all competitor tracks can be made available on the internet so that those logged on can keep track of their favourites. Tracking also makes post-race analysis far more interesting and meaningful. IOF expects GPS tracking to be used in all WOC individual Finals and Relay races.

[Big Jon]

Would she have died without a whistle?

That's a bit extreme. How about: Was the rescue quicker? did the casualty have to lie alone on the moors for a long time in the sun? Was the injured runner found quickly or only after not downloading? was it a big search across the whole course, or isolated to where a noise was coming from?

This was a level C event, most of us are there for fun and would like to think that our well being was as as important as the competition ...

In other words the whistle did not save a life here - and I'm fairly sure a whistle has never saved an orienteers life (I'd love to know of any cases where it has), so the whole whistle thing is just a case of health & safety hysteria.

[parallelerror]

I have been drafting some stuff for Bulletin 2 and under the section on clothing (which in IOF Rules comes under Equipment) the rules of the Organising federation apply. This would mean full torso cover and short/long sleeves (not cut off sleeves).

Why? BOF rules mention nothing about sleeves.

[Blonde bombshell]

Whistles - health & safety - yes, hysteria - NO.

Big Jon - if you had suffered a broken bone, sprain etc you would not want to be out on the course, in pain, for any longer then needed. The whistle could result in help arriving more quickly and an injury being dealt with sooner.

Why all this fuss about a whistle?
It is small, cheap, easily carried.

Just deal with it!

[denbydale]

Would she have died without a whistle?

That's a bit extreme. How about: Was the rescue quicker? did the casualty have to lie alone on the moors for a long time in the sun? Was the injured runner found quickly or only after not downloading? was it a big search across the whole course, or isolated to where a noise was coming from?

This was a level C event, most of us are there for fun and would like to think that our well being was as as important as the competition ...

In other words the whistle did not save a life here - and I'm fairly sure a whistle has never saved an orienteers life (I'd love to know of any cases where it has), so the whole whistle thing is just a case of health & safety hysteria.

So you've got to be in danger of dying before you use a whistle? What a stupid assumption

[ifor]

The argument is not about the using or carrying, it is about the 'mandating' of carrying by the organiser. If you are personally worried about being stuck out for a long time on the moor not being found because you don't have a whistle then you should clearly take responsibility for yourself and take a whistle, and possibly a cagoule if you think the weather is appropriately bad.

The organiser should be asking the 'will you die without question' as that is nub of the issue when working out if you want to mandate these things.

[Arnold]

I hate being forced to carry whistles or cagoules - mostly because I don't like rules in general, and more particularly because orienteering is one of those few areas that is relatively health and safety free.

Having said that, the organiser does have overall responsibility for runners' safety, and is the one who has to arrange search parties if something goes wrong. So I can see that side of the argument where there really is a safety concern - for example JK Day 3 it seemed sensible to carry a cagoule given the uncertainty of the weather and the exposure of the moorland.

Could a compromise be found where organisers "advise" competitors to carry stuff, rather than mandate? That way the organiser's responsibility is discharged but the competitor is free to make their own decision.

[roadrunner]

I can see some people thinking that carrying a cagoule is a nuisance, but a whistle - come on! It's tiny, cheap and weighs next to nothing. I used to tape one to a safety pin and then pin it to my top and forget about it - simples.

I think you do have to consider the organiser and all the other helpers who would have to search if someone didn't report in at the finish just as much as the competitors themselves. If mandating whistles reduced the time they might have to spend looking, then surely it's worth it.

[graeme]

It's tiny, cheap and weighs next to nothing.

But it's not about the bother of carrying one. It's about whether it's sensible to send a small child back on a 7km round trip walk to their car to collect an easily mislaid, useless object that is never needed in their country. i.e. in practice just overofficiously preventing people from going orienteering. (Yes, Northern Champs, I'm looking at you!)

Would you like to volunteer for the job of checking whistles at WOC? If not, why not?

[ifor]

You can not assume a whistle will help with the search the casualty being unconscious is is the scenario your search planning should be contemplating. For the WOC long final with thousands of people around if a mass search was needed I think it's a none issue but for your local night event with only 10 or 20 competitors you need to at least think about these things a bit.

[Gross]

Methinks Daddy should've read the rules & information in the car park & made certain said small child was prepared properly

[roadrunner]

You can not assume a whistle will help with the search the casualty being unconscious is is the scenario your search planning should be contemplating. For the WOC long final with thousands of people around if a mass search was needed I think it's a none issue but for your local night event with only 10 or 20 competitors you need to at least think about these things a bit.

I was once involved in a search at a local colour-coded event; that was with maybe 10 of us searching, and it was difficult enough to organise it even then. I dread to think how one would get hundreds of people to search in an efficient way, especially if they don't all speak the same language!

[King Penguin]

The point is not whether the injured party carrying a whistle would help in all circumstances, it is whether it MAY help in SOME circumstances.
For what is involved in carrying one I really cannot see a problem.
Many years ago when seatbelts first became mandatory there were lots of comments about "big brother", reluctance and it felt odd. Now it's an automatic action to belt up.
Granted, the stats on lives saved / injuries reduced by seatbelts are unequivocal, whereas the same is not the case for whistles at O events, but if we all carry them all the time it will become as automatic and natural to take it as your SI/EMIT card, compass (cue the responses from the few who never use a compass) or map.
If it speeds recovery of just one person at one event surely it is worth a few grams.
A whistle has certainly alerted me to an injured schoolgirl at a schools event where I was patrolling part of the course. I doubt I would have heard her shout.

[ER]

I doubt UK Athletics when organising the World Championships or any other such sport governing body will post on a forum asking for views on an aspect of holding a championship. It is wholly inappropriate. Just how does it look to a prospective sponsor?

[Tessa]

Well said ER.

It is also very difficult for potential athletes. All athletes from all countries should have access to the same information from the organisers and that should come via the official Bulletins or press releases.

It may not be advantageous to know whether whistles will be compulsory, what the mobile phone coverage of the areas is like, what tents need to be sourced etc, that is not the point.

Please can these issues be discussed within the organising committee and not in a public forum.