Whistles and Cagoules

[graeme]

A fatal accident inquiry will not attribute blame but will look at failures in the organisational system which had they not occurred may have prevented the incident happening etc.

and this is what actually worries me. I'm afraid I don't have huge faith in m'learned friends to be expert in orienteering. What is far more likely is that they would look through the guidelines. And the more pettifogging regulations we put in them, the more risk of an organiser getting the blame for "failing to follow best practice".

[SJC]

And the more pettifogging regulations we put in them, the more risk of an organiser getting the blame for "failing to follow best practice".

Yet without them the organising club could be held to account for failing to have adequate safety measures in place for staging such an event.

[EddieH]

2 points

1 With even a little wind the cheap plastic whistles are virtually useless as their carry is tiny - (100m range is over optimistic even in a flat forest). And it is in wild weather where we are likely to insist. If we are serious about whistles then we would insist on Acme thunderers or the like.

2 We tend to insist on whistles at large events where there are normally many people around. At the small events where most clubs ignore it it is far harder to find a lost/injured competitor and therefore a whistle, (even if only marginaly effective,) would be several times more likely to serve its purpose.

[Big Jon]

Eddie, I agree. At the Deeside Night Cup we do not insist on competitors carrying whistles, though we strongly recommend a second torch. We do generally print the organiser/planner's mobile phone number on the maps, so competitors can carry a phone (if they want) - if it works in the area is another story.....
We have a plan for how to respond if a competitor is injured or missing - basically if anything looks bad then we call 999 and get police/mountain rescue to take responsibility.

[In 15 years of the DNC we've never had an incident that needed external support - this is something that I would use as evidence if ever anything reached a court]

[Big Jon]

We are of course overlooking the most likely source of someone getting lost and dying in the forest - an individual (either training or planner, controller etc) out in an area on their own. No number of high quality whistles are going to help if there is no-one in the same forest as you

[AndyC]

and unfortunately the better areas don't tend to have Mobile Phone reception to allow us to all for help that way.

[Freefall]

Planners, controllers and the occasional member of the SOA staff do wander around the forest on their own and we now carry Personal Locator Beacons as part of company policy. These do not require a mobile network. Hopefully we will never have to use them. I always carry a whistle when orienteering (and at other times I note my OMM rucksac has a built in whistle which may be ineffective - I fancy doing the New Orange Whistle Test sometime).

[PG]

Following the death of a competitor and inquest recommendations, FRA rules 2014 now make "best practice" equipment mandatory at category A long and medium and category B long fell races. "Best practice" equipment has always included a whistle. In 2014 it changed "windproof whole body cover" to "waterproof whole body cover".

I don't believe that whistles should be mandatory at all events, but do feel orienteers should not get upset at being asked to carry a whistle for events on exposed moorland or with potentially dangerous rock features. I would hate to be the organiser or controller at an inquest who had to explain to a coroner and family of the casualty why he had relaxed the rule to carry a whistle.

[andypat]

I personally am not offended at the idea I should carry a whistle. I offer you the scenario below as an alternative reason why whistles might be a good idea from a fairness perspective. I often when I am out in the forest hear shouts, cries even occasionally screams, coming from fellow competitors somewhere in the distance. I know having occasionally face planted myself, that its often difficult not to offer a vocal response to an unexpected landing in a marsh, tussock or other aspect of terrain. However its often very difficult to tell as a competitor whether these are issues of genuine concern or indeed how far away from you the individual is.

However after hearing the story of one competitor at the Scottish night O champs this weekend who, on hearing loud shouts for help from nearby, diverted to offer assistance only to be confronted by a healthy competitor who had "lost something" on the ground, I would seriously consider my default position on hearing any shouting during an event to be to carry on regardless. If however I heard a whistle being blown 6 times in the agreed manner for an emergency...

[mikey]

I'd be interested to know how many orienteers have been saved through carrying a whistle (in real life situations, not make-believe controller course set-ups).
Any one got any numbers?

Appears as if a whistle was used to good effect at the DVO race yesterday on Carsington Pastures.

[Freefall]

Edited

[Lard]

We seriously won't look cool insisting (it has to be "you will/must" if you apply it) international athletes carry a whistle. But whether you should surely depends on the insurance cover for the event. If not carrying a whistle invalidates insurance then you have no choice but to apply it. If there's no mention of a whistle in the insurer's bumph then it's down to the organiser's risk assessment.

[Big Jon]

Colin, don't start insisting on whistles for WOC - unless you wish lots of hassle, are prepared to supply adequate numbers of whistles at the start for each competitor at each race and are also prepared to disqualify a world champion for not carrying a whistle.

[Big Jon]

I'd be interested to know how many orienteers have been saved through carrying a whistle (in real life situations, not make-believe controller course set-ups).
Any one got any numbers?

Appears as if a whistle was used to good effect at the DVO race yesterday on Carsington Pastures.

Any details as opposed to a suggestion that a whistle was used?

[madmike]

Colin, don't start insisting on whistles for WOC - unless you wish lots of hassle, are prepared to supply adequate numbers of whistles at the start for each competitor at each race and are also prepared to disqualify a world champion for not carrying a whistle.

A very good point Jon - I once organised a NATO Air Force Champs (gnitworp controlled the long race as I recall) and the rules specified whistles had to be carried. Ultrasport kindly agreed to sponsor the event to the tune of a whistle for every competitor to avoid the hassle we would have otherwise got (thanks Ian).

It was bad enough being the "no GPS policeman" at WMOC last year - the amount of arguments I got into (mainly with Swedes) was incredible! I am definitely not offering to be the carry a whistle policeman at WOC