British Long / Relay Champs 2014

[madmike]

minimum of 1m to be mapped, also symbols for large boulder and gigantic boulder with no size specified

[DJM]

DJM wrote:

If there is a problem it is that the course ratios don't reflect that oldies run slower in rough terrain than the elite.

Do they? My analysis above doesn't back this up at all ...

Strictly speaking it does, but then you dont need analysis to know that

I interpreted Eddie's comment in the way in which I think it was intended and not in the way it appeared

In other words, I think his point was that oldies run relatively more slowly than the elite when the terrain is rough and that the CLRs don't take this into account. My point is that this is debatable and that the analysis in my previous post does not back this up.

For example, the M60L course should be 0.48 of the (corrected) length of the M21E course, irrespective of whether the event is in the New Forest or in Thrunton/Callaly ... assuming the two courses experience roughly the same range of terrain within each area.

[greywolf]

Condition (a) can be achieved by assuming the winner had run all of the fastest splits on the course

Not sure this is a valid assumption - fastest splits often follow a mistake (because the runner has had a bit of a rest whilst searching for the previous control and/or is racing to catch up) or precede a mistake (because the runner is going too fast for his/her navigational ability)

[Simon E]

routegadget does not show the codes.

Try clicking the circle icon on the icon bar in the top right of the screen. You will probably then need to reduce the circle size a bit on the configurations option screen (click the cog icon).

[Gnitworp]

Condition (a) can be achieved by assuming the winner had run all of the fastest splits on the course

Not sure this is a valid assumption - fastest splits often follow a mistake (because the runner has had a bit of a rest whilst searching for the previous control and/or is racing to catch up) or precede a mistake (because the runner is going too fast for his/her navigational ability)

Might not the phenomenon you describe be equally applicable to all classes and therefore its distorting effect could be balanced out over complete courses. Could it not produce a bias that could affect any class as much as any other?

[greywolf]

Might not the phenomenon you describe be equally applicable to all classes and therefore its distorting effect could be balanced out over complete courses. Could it not produce a bias that could affect any class as much as any other?

of course - but the point is that you can't use the sum of the best splits as the time the winner would have done without errors - DJM concludes that "long times were mostly due to large errors of winners" but had he used a more realistic measure of what an error free run would be then several more of his "Ideal Winning times" would have been longer than the guideline ranges.

[Gnitworp]

True, but his analysis does support his contention that 'oldies don't run relatively more slowly in rough terrain', since his enhanced 'unrealistic' winning times are equally enhanced across all classes and therefore realistically reflect relative speeds.

[DavidJ]

of course - but the point is that you can't use the sum of the best splits as the time the winner would have done without errors - DJM concludes that "long times were mostly due to large errors of winners" but had he used a more realistic measure of what an error free run would be then several more of his "Ideal Winning times" would have been longer than the guideline ranges.

There is also the point that someone who has the fastest splits early on might not be able to keep up the pace whereas someone who has started slowly might realise that they had some energy left and put in some fast times towards the end. Combining both sets of fastest splits might not produce a valid fastest time.

Personally, having initially missed control 208 and struggling around the various crags, boulders and semi-open, I wish I could just go back and walk the route I think I should have taken and see if I go straight to it.

[DJM]

DJM wrote:
Condition (a) can be achieved by assuming the winner had run all of the fastest splits on the course

Not sure this is a valid assumption

Two points here - firstly it's a better estimate of the "ideal" time than anything else. Secondly, the best runners were not present in a few classes. Had they been there, the winning times could have been shorter.

[graeme]

several more of his "Ideal Winning times" would have been longer than the guideline ranges.

Yes, but still nowhere near as far out as the relay times. With no previous events for guidance, and a wide variety of terrain types, getting times spot on is exceptionally difficult I'd like to say again that the planning on my course was excellent. I'm blaming the controller and cartographer for 208.

In case you missed it, here's what the winners had to say on AP.

One of the most challenging physical and technical courses I have ever run in the UK.

I think we elites are supposed to be cool about these things, ... but wow that run today was cool!

[Gross]

Easy to quote elite courses and even easier to quoter the winners.... be more impressed is Graeme quoted a Velecky W90 OR SIMILAR

[Domhnull Mor]

I wasn't at the British so can't really comment on courses there but if you're looking for long winning times for course distances then take a look at this year's Irish Champs long distance http://www.orienteering.ie/result2?oaction=fullSIResult&id=2282

In my own case, a great course and map, a nice, open mountaintop area but more challenging than anything similar I'd run on before (way bigger peat hags). The only thing noone could have planned for was the thick fog that hung over the area for the entire day, although someone had at least thought of the possibility as the youngest had their courses in a different area at the bottom of the hill. One little navigational miss and you were basically stuffed. Even though I DNF'ed it was still one of the most enjoyable runs I've had in years

[graeme]

Easy to quote elite courses and even easier to quoter the winners

Easy to find quotes, but easier not to bother and take cheap shots.

[Homer]

Just received my (unused due to injury) BOC map in the post.

Big thanks to the organisers. This is a nice touch (especially given the cost) and one that doesn't seem to happen often these days. I know, having entered, but not started, too many races this year

Thanks BOC

[DavidJ]

Sad to see that there are no British Relay results on the BOF site yet ... so no ranking points . I was hoping to get a good score to boost my position.