British Long / Relay Champs 2014

[Tatty]

Many other winning times were way out. Don't think that male planners, or those who set the rules, have much idea about how older ladies cope with physical terrain. I think that Jean Velecky deserves a special medal for perseverance managing to complete the course presented to her as a W90. no wonder her son was worried that his mother was still out.

[denbydale]

Thought orienteering was supposed to be a RUNNING sport for ALL?
Looking at the times for the older courses it would appear not

[graeme]

I don't think there's much info about "How fast can an exceptional 90-year-old lady negotiate rough terrain". After a sensible winning time of an hour, Jean had covered less than 400m and found 1 control. In the absence of any easy-running forest, should they have made the course much shorter, compromised the technicality and go to TD3, or moved the senior BOC to more appropriate area?

Faced with a similar problem, I can recall getting bawled out (by an older lady organiser) for suggesting using easy terrain, then by older lady competitors for it being too rough. I never quite resolved the right answer. (I did ignore the rules to get the winning times reasonable).

So while you are right that a 4-hour winning time isn't good, until someone answers these difficult questions planners will go on following the guidelines and it will keep happening.

[yted]

Most of the adult courses were about 10% too long.
BUT it was a really fantastic event. I thought the map, planning, arena, forest, organisation and weather were all worthy of the British Championships. The courses were tough physically and mentally but fair and a true test of who was the best classic distance forest orienteer on the day. The relay was also good though a bit open and runnable for my liking!
And there's nothing wrong with sprint events...... you are allowed to enjoy both.

[NeilC]

or those who set the rules.

Tatty, could you provide some suggestions as to what the rules should say. Currently they say:

2.7.3 Applying the course length ratios – points to watch out for:
 M21 (or Black) probably uses the whole area. The shorter courses use
only part of it, and this might be more or less runnable, or steeper/flatter,
than the average
 rough terrain has a greater effect on the running speed of younger and
older competitors than of M21s
 older competitors are significantly affected by steep terrain, particularly
downhill
 older competitors find dense tree growth more of an obstacle –
suppleness decreases with age
 There is no magic formula for allowing for these variables.

and:

2.4.1 The nature of the terrain over which the competitors will be running should be
considered for all age groups. Areas of dense undergrowth (e.g. rhododendrons)
or which are difficult underfoot (e.g. boulder fields), do not test the orienteering
skill of 'running navigation' and so should be avoided. Steep descents, whilst
acceptable for M/W21, should be kept to a minimum for younger juniors and older
veterans. Features such as fences which may provide significant obstacles for
younger competitors, or less agile age groups, should be taken into account.

[Scott]

Most of the adult courses were about 10% too long.

Of the 19 adult courses (counting course 4 twice):
8 were within the recommended winning times
3 were less than 5% over the maximum recommended winning time
1 was between 5% and 10% over the maximum recommended winning time
2 were between 10% and 15% over the maximum recommended winning time
5 were more than 15% over the maximum recommended winning time (of which course 16 was 34% over, course 21 was 44% over and course 22 was 254% over)

[mikey]

W90 at WMOC 2013 ran 1.1 km in the final which sounds about right. Jean was second in 93 minutes.

[graeme]

W90 at WMOC 2013 ran 1.1 km in the final which sounds about right. Jean was second in 93 minutes.

Whereas she got 1.1km (control 4 at BOC) in 167 minutes, 300% of the expected winning time. We can conclude that this is not a problem easily solved by saying "that sounds about right".

[orunner]

Splitsbrowser reveals some interesting information.
In classes where the winning times were longer that the target range, the winners lost significant amounts of time (14 minutes plus) against the fastest leg splits. Contrast that with Andy Hemsted in M65L who lost a little over 2 minutes against the fastest leg splits.
Is there another factor here? Not being used to tough courses and terrain (which it was) are competitors losing their concentration? The splits show that runners could maintain a reasonable speed through the terrain - but did make more mistakes than usual. Had they not then the times would have been closer to the targets, albeit still a bit on the long side.
It's also worth looking at the times on a course rather than just the times for a class. For example, course 20, target time range 55-65 won in 59 by a W55S, leading W75 was 82. Should we question the new BOF class combinations?
I'm not a complacent planner and like to understand why things don't work out the way I intend. However, just saying "too tough" is overly simplistic.
Yes, it was tough. Too much so for a British Championship? Too much to expect winners to run consistently (like Andy)?
Are the class combinations right? Which class on a course is the target time range aimed at?
Have to hold up my hand and admit that W90 time took me by surprise. In hindsight, the terrain for that course was probably too tough, although the alternative would have been just paths and forest roads or a separate start and finish to use the easiest terrain. This year is the first time the class has been contested and separated out on its own course and a sample of 1 is not really statistically significant.

[mikey]

We can conclude that this is not a problem easily solved by saying "that sounds about right".

Rule 1 in 'The Art of Coarse Planning'.

[ianandmonika]

M/W 90 should probably have been mainly on tracks, with controls nearby. The course on route gadget is far from appropriate for that age group in that terrain - might have been Ok if forest floor clean but it was not - in WMOC they also have had shadows for that age group. In Saturday's terrain that might have been a good idea.

Having said that, my course was tough and long but I enjoyed it. A technical and physical challenge.

Map was fine but ride mapping in eastern part was difficult to understand - which were on map? Seemed to be little distinction. Where was ride with drinks station at NW end - not visible from drinks station?

[graeme]

Of the 19 adult courses (counting course 4 twice)...

So much closer to expectations than the relay then?

[andypat]

I'd course 8 on the individuals and found it really tough but thought it a good challenging course with some interesting route choice issues and some tough navigational challenges, quite apart from the tough going. I was out for about the same time as the W90!

My wife thought the orange course a bit unimaginative - it does have the look of a long yellow.

[mrmoosehead]

I found it a bit of a sufferfest on course 4, but not unrealistic.
I'm not brilliant in really rough foul stuff, but It's just a hardship for me.
To send someone less able to leap and bound and risk their ankles through some of that stuff was probably a bit mean.

The bilberry cover was lethal.

Well done to the 'oldies' for surviving and keeping going. I hope I can still do what they are in 40 odd years time. (or even 10 years at this rate)

edit:

Oh, and I thought the relay area was great fun.

[SteveE]

I didn't go to the event, so looking at Wendles photos, gives a feel of the event.

Of interest, on the risk assessment, who thought it safe to place a generator on the course, without suitable taping??

Was there nowhere else more convenient?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/wendles56 ... 961939515/