Do you want a medal or what?

[SeanC]

Lets focus the discussion on juniors.

So two weekends ago I took my son to the Kent Junior Orienteering Championships. He went away chuffed with his silver medal in the year 2 boys category*. He was also chuffed to get a medal for the Ted Pepper 2k childrens' race 2 days later (the junior version of the Ted Pepper 10k) which he got just for finishing (unlike the orienteering event).

The thing is, I feel bad** for the minority of younger juniors at the Kent Junior Championships who didn't get a medal because they weren't in the top 3 of their age. For a youngster it can be seen as times matter - just finishing doesn't. But that's got to be wrong. A junior finishing an orienteering course is an achievement. Many adults, yet alone children, can't read a map, and definitely not when running. If the 2k race had taken the same approach, I'm quite sure he wouldn't be as keen to go to another one.

Both medals are waiting to be displayed at "show and tell" in school***. More (not free) publicity.

* 2 competitors.
** no criticism of this year's organiser, this annual event was my idea (mostly copied from the British Schools Championship).
*** all show and tells are delayed by two weeks as all fun has been cancelled due to SATs

[Gross]

or the minority of younger juniors at the Kent Junior Championships who didn't get a medal because they weren't in the top 3 of their age

So maximum of 5 in each age class? Hardly worth the effort.....

[mappingmum]

I did the Edinburgh Great Run at the end of April. Entry fee £25. I got 10 miles of closed roads/tracks, excellent signage, musical entertainment at every mile marker and a goody bag at the end comprising finisher's T-shirt, snack, water, medal, space blanket and promotional leaflets.

A typical similar orienteering outing (say a SOL) costs me £12 and I get to take home the map.

Bit of a price differential between the entry fee and the *prize* in the above comparison. I don't think the participants in a road race enter for the goody bag or the T-shirt.

[denbydale]

I don't think the participants in a road race enter for the goody bag or the T-shirt.

If you read some of the comments on running forums a hell of a lot of them do!!

[SeanC]

The Ted Pepper 10k race was around £12 (I think £2 for the childrens race) so running events do seem to be able to do this at comparable prices to regional orienteering events. I got a medal and some running socks (+ advertising for sponsoring running shop).

Of course an orienteering map is much more valuable than a medal.

[greywolf]

Orienteering is generally pretty cheap.
However, if what you get for your £5 is a crap map, crap planning and timing kit not put out right then it's still a waste of money (and considerable time getting there and back). I'd be happy to pay double or more if I could be confident the map, planning and controls would be better quality.
PS Medals for kids, fine, but for adults at anything other than championships they are an embarrassment

[andypat]

Great to have medals for the top 3 kids (u16 ) in any big races, but I'd suggest that giving medals out to everyone would simply devalue the top 3. We're always banging on about the raking list for u16s - I think this is broadly the same thing. reward success. Praise effort.

[Sunlit Forres]

Agree Andy. At last Sunday's Moray & Highland Junior Champs, just the top 3 got medals, but all got maps to take away - with the (junior) course planners' names on them.

Someone suggested the brilliant idea of getting all the kids who stayed for the prize giving together for a podium photo so that's what we did. And Chris Spencer (the renowned Scottish 6 days photographer aka Activ North) took a rather nice pic.
http://www.activnorth.com/-/galleries/orienteering/mh-junior-champs-culbin-2014/-/medias/1a31aac0-d91c-11e3-bb73-329e81129ea7

[Paul Frost]

I'd be happy to pay double or more if I could be confident the map, planning and controls would be better quality.

Seconded.

[andypat]

Would you be happy with that money going to the planner/organiser/controller?

I'm sure that to plan/organise/control a Level C event properly takes 30-50 person hours of effort at least. A day later and all you have to show for it are the few thoughtful people who thanked you on the day and the various people who enjoyed/hated it posting on her or atttackpoint.

Where would the additional money go?

[Paul Frost]

The extra money could help fund a map update in the first place, this alone would probably improve the experience at many events.
It would make it easier for the club to cover the expenses of these people, many of whom I suspect don't claim them because they think the club can't afford them.
Could also help pay for:
Newer or more copies of software applications like Ocad & Condes.
Extra Electronic kit if the club has only a limited number of controls.
Use of a hall for registration/download.

More funds available to spend on 'stuff' can also reduce the pressure on helpers to 'manage' with old or out of date equipment etc.

[greywolf]

Would you be happy with that money going to the planner/organiser/controller?
I'm sure that to plan/organise/control a Level C event properly takes 30-50 person hours of effort at least. A day later and all you have to show for it are the few thoughtful people who thanked you on the day and the various people who enjoyed/hated it posting on her or atttackpoint.
Where would the additional money go?

As Paul says, maps and kit.
I have no objection to paying planners, but I'd say 50 hours minimum for planning a 7/8 course Level C, (although a fair chunk of that would be test running, which is training I'd be doing anyway, and another portion would be map tweaking) so if you have 160 competitors paying £2 a head that would just about pay the planner at minimum wage level. (If you're not expecting 150+ runners then IMHO you should be planning fewer courses)
That sort of sum probably won't motivate the middle-aged and/or well-heeled, but might be useful for older juniors and students. In the longer-term having a cadre of "professional" planners ought to drive standards up (because only the good ones would get hired!).

I'd also like to see some part of the entry fee/levy contribute to independent evaluation of maps/planning. I've never drawn a perfect map or planned a perfect course (and never will) and would welcome objective feedback but there isn't really any mechanism to provide this at present.

All this might mean fewer Level B/C "Professional" events and more Level D "amateur"
events with 2 or 3 courses etc - which might not be a bad thing either

[Scott]

It would make it easier for the club to cover the expenses of these people, many of whom I suspect don't claim them because they think the club can't afford them.

I really dislike the tendency in orienteering for well-heeled volunteers not to bother claiming expenses. When not claiming expenses becomes the norm in a club, it only serves to make it awkward/embarrassing for people who do try to claim, perhaps because they can't afford to be out of pocket for £100+ of petrol and stationery. Ultimately this just puts some people off volunteering in the first place.

I'd much rather have everyone claim what they're due, even if I do have to pay a couple of extra quid on my entry fee to cover it.

[Paul Frost]

I'd much rather have everyone claim what they're due...

I agree, they can always donate it back to the club or some other fund/charity. But it then gives a truer measure of the cost of putting on an event. Plus as you say, it doesn't make it embarrassing when less well off people claim.

Orienteering is not very good when it comes to thinking about ROI (return on investment) when budgeting. Mostly that investment is someones time, and that's often thought of as being free. Perhaps it's because I come from a commercial background, rather than public sector, but I nearly always think about the ROI before starting something. But I still spend far too much time on things that don't really justify the hours I spend on them, like posting on Nopesport.

[frog]

My main reason for not claiming is that I tend to lose my receipts and forget to notice how many miles I've travelled. For this Sunday's relays I've bought various bits and pieces but suspect the receipts for half of them have vanished and can only guess how many miles it is from my house to Newtyle. I usually claim a bit for bigger events but my organisational abilities are stretched making sure I remember the stuff I need for the event without organising the nonessential pieces of paper too.
I like the mementos for kids idea, but orienteering prize givings are tedious, especially if it's rainy. They definitely work much better with a mass start and a building.