Focus and new staff

[Wayward-O]

Our Focus arrived late last week, but the AGM papers are only on the website.

[bewildered]

But since 95% of events don't have a suitable course for junior school aged children (by this I mean white or string) it's a real cheek complaining about BOF putting on something instead outside the club structure. Good for them. Kids running around a park and having fun. How can you complain?

I wasn't complaining about the idea of XPlorer or RunChallenge. I run a regular beginners "Cub Night" and coach in local primary schools and know how hard it is to get the balance right so that those beginners have a "pathway" to moving on to "real" orienteering.

What I was complaining about was the fact that it has been done without apparently ANY targets to move people from XPlorer into main stream orienteering.

It would just be nice to have a target set by the Board that shows an intent to do this.

[SeanC]

Ok, I might have been a bit grumpy earlier, but now I've been for a run and had a cup of tea and feel a bit better. Sorry.

It's the start of their second year, so now would be the time to look at this. First year = get people going to it is the first priority. SportEngland wont refund if the numbers are bad.

Targets might be difficult as control is only partly in BOF's hands. Some clubs don't have such a good junior set up so it will be more difficult to sell the local club. To use the jargon, a "partnership" is needed between local clubs and Xplorer team leaders, with help from BOF to whatever extent they can. This is where the development steering group thingy becomes relevant IMHO.

[bewildered]

Why should the Board not set the CEO "difficult" targets that relate to increased membership coming from the SportEngland funding?

BO is a National Governing Body, not just a "consultancy" for SportEngland.

[EddieH]

"BO is a National Governing Body"

Precisely and as such it surely has no purpose if it is not to do the bidding of its members.

It seems to me that the paid executive should stand up and justify how its current priorities are doing our bidding.

I like Mike Hamilton and have always found him amenable and prepared to give hi time, but that is not enough.

[SeanC]

When I say "difficult" I mean it's difficult to get the right number right now because it's very early days for these events, not that the target shouldn't be difficult to achieve. My own view of targets is that they can be helpful, but if done wrong, are often too easy to achieve (potentially demotivating, "I've done my target") or impossible to achieve (demotivating, setting people up for failure).

There are other ways to do it. The Xplorer leaders could be given an incentive for every referral to an orienteering club. It might not need to be a massive financial bonus or anything. Alternatively we could trust our directors and the steering group to scrutinise the project.

I suspect though that people on this forum won't get everything they want without some more volunteering. From SportEngland's viewpoint, this is more orienteering participation so aims are being achieved. RedAdder and others can po po it as entertainment, but I think it's orienteering. I wish we had it down in Kent, I'd be taking my son (aged 7) to it whenever I could. He'd be learning some map skills, making friends and enjoying himself. He'd be more likely to get into orienteering when he's older rather than the competing sports.

He does enjoy Kent Orienteering League yellow courses, but he doesn't really do much map reading as the map and course are too hard for his age. But dibbing the controls make him run and he makes his own entertainment (insisting on direct routes through fight, jumping in all the ditches etc )

[Sunlit Forres]

Clubs have not been informed when these events might be on, lest we infect the participants

It's not exactly hard to find out. "Xplorer events near xxx" on Google seems to work fine.

I think we should remember that nor every club might want, or have the infrastructure, to throw massive effort at bringing on newcomers and going out searching for 6 year olds to recruit. Some clubs are full of busy people who want to enjoy taking part in orienteering themselves rather than laying on opportunities for others who will come along now and again.

Personally I'm really proud of what's Britain's best-kept sporting secret. I love to see new people trying the sport and wondering why they'd never done it earlier. But that's just me.

[Spookster]

British Orienteering has brought Xplorer to the JK to demonstrate what it is all about. In 2013 over 10,000 people in the North West, North East and East Midland areas of Britain took part in Xplorer. In 2014 our aim is to deliver Xplorer to over 30,000 individuals across Britain.

[buzz]

The reason BOF should care is simply that it was created to look after the interests of people who go orienteering, not to provide entertainment for 6 year olds.

"BO is a National Governing Body"
Precisely and as such it surely has no purpose if it is not to do the bidding of its members.

A couple of interesting points here.

I don't think BOF was created to look after the interests of people who go orienteering. The original constitution obliged the old Federation to develop the sport of orienteering not look after the existing members, and the principles appear to have survived the transition to a limited company with members interests appearing in only one of twelve 'objects' of the company in the Articles of Association.

Eddie's quite right that BO is obliged to do the bidding of its members in that the members could vote to change the Articles of Association, but it's current purpose is to develop the sport of orienteering in this country.

That does beg the question are the expensive initiatives like Xplorer, and the Talent Programme actually developing orienteering when they set themselves apart from the mainstream sport?

[SeanC]

The debate about Xplorer reminds me of things I used to hear about local events. Not real (ie big forest/regional) orienteering. People go to them but don't move on to real orienteering so what's the point? But most of us now accept that by putting on simple to organise, easy to reach events, we have expanded our potential market massively by expanding mainstream orienteering beyond events which need a 1-2 hour drive. 2 hour drives to regionals is for fanatics*, local events are for normal people. And most successful clubs have successful local events.

The same pattern is true of urban orienteering. Some still say it's not real orienteering, but it expands our market to the majority of runners who prefer tarmac and paths to running through bushes.

Xplorer is just following this pattern, expanding the orienteering market into junior school aged children. Just like local events, only a handful will ever progress to regional events, and after a while we wont see this as a problem.


*nothing wrong with being an orienteering fanatic IMHO

[bewildered]

Sean

There is nothing wrong with having XPlorer as a concept. (I spend much of my working time coaching Primary School kids in orienteering and most really enjoy it.)

The issue is that it was set up as separate from Orienteering.

As an example - no kites on the control markers? Why not? Are kids really going to be put off from XPlorer if an orange/white marker is visible?

When they then happen to be in a park with those markers, they won't recognise them as being part of something they have already done and enjoyed.

"Simplified" maps? When they do try orienteering next, they will be using O maps. Is that likely to be confusing - or a barrier?

[SeanC]

I'm still not sure I can relate to your concerns. Xplorer seems to be in the string course/ off-string genre where we've been using simplified maps and children's characters on controls for decades. Both string/off-string and Xplorer seem an excellent way of picking up some basic map reading skills, and having fun. I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one bewildered.

There is a video on the Xplorer website for anyone who's interested. http://www.xplorer.org.uk/about

I'm not going to the JK, but I would have been interested in going along and seeing the format. Maybe it's something clubs might be able to do at some of their events? Or as a separate families league aiming at a local area? I don't know what BOF would say if clubs wanted to join in? It seems like Xplorer is a kind of franchise model, where you have to follow the script (rather like ParkRun) which might be a problem for orienteering clubs who usually want to do things their own way. In any case seeing a different format it might spark some ideas. Eg those simplified maps might be good for adult beginners too?

[tropso]

Xplorer concept is fine and it's fun for kids but poor quality in my experience, disappointingly so given the large investment.

Has the claimed 10,000 participation so far benefited clubs or orienteering generally? I'd like to see the evidence

[EddieH]

Sean, whether or not Xplorer is that good, my point is but the way BOF have done it is not right IMO - as an entirely separate activity and with no reference (indeed the apparent desire to exclude) existing orienteering clubs.

Part of the result was the initially reported extremely poor quality of the events presumably because the franchisees had no knowledge of our sport and apparently little map reading ability

Simple maps have their place, but controls that can only be found by luck seem to me a very poor introduction to any navigational activity.

[MIE]

Sean, whether or not Xplorer is that good, my point is but the way BOF have done it is not right IMO - as an entirely separate activity and with no reference (indeed the apparent desire to exclude) existing orienteering clubs.

Part of the result was the initially reported extremely poor quality of the events presumably because the franchisees had no knowledge of our sport and apparently little map reading ability

Simple maps have their place, but controls that can only be found by luck seem to me a very poor introduction to any navigational activity.

This may, indeed, be a good reason to be "glad" that orienteering is/was not mentioned
in the "publicity" for these events. The very idea that "Joe Public" exposed to Xplorer
or RunChallenge would see those travesties as typical of "real" orienteering fills me with dread and foreboding. At least when someone says they tried either then we, in
the know, can say that you haven't tried real orienteering with real orienteering
maps (be it the Urban, park or forest versions, or even the street versions using OOM
-- like the one I've planned for tomorrow)