Are you looking forward to a Wilf's veggie chilli?

[MIE]

Can someone with a more flexible mindset please translate that
statement from "adminstrator-eze" in to plain English.

[bewildered]

The Administror-eze is there to justify their jobs.

Still not going to BOC this year.

[greywolf]

I repeat, all income generated from agreements with traders and service providers is recycled back into the event either to enhance the event or to keep the entry cost down.

The man's a comedy genius

[andypat]

Mind you I regard food traders as being a bonus to an event - not something to be charged for.

I suppose the question is can orienteering sustain a different perspective?

[mrmoosehead]

Reading MH's response there's a couple of things that leap out at me:

1) There's a lot more to the onosh / BOF tussle that meets the eye. As non-participants looking from the outside, how are we well placed to comment? I certainly know nothing except the seemingly conflicting titbits that have been thrown out by the respective parties.
2) there is not a single mention of taking into account what the orienteers attending want* (there is a mention of the BOF requirements, but what were those?)

[edit] Actually, I take (2) back. The wording is 'wordy' but there does seem to be mention of consulting experienced organisers and others. I'd be interested to know who these were.


* of course there is a difficulty in gathering this information. So perhaps BOF should have a post event survey on the contentious events to find out what the attendees wanted and what they thought of the provided services; rather than what BOF want, or what a vocal subsection of the affected parties on Nopesport.

Just my rambling tuppence

[Tatty]

I wasn't consulted!! Why not?

[graeme]

Maybe anyone who's nope login is a type of food was deemed to have voted already

[PhilJ]

Agree with big Jon, croeso last time, we had Red Baron, o nosh and taste of wales, first 2 easy to organise, taste of wales couple of calls, went with them as podium were in France else they would have come, compasspoint, ultrasport and mountain "someone" were all a "given" as far as I know no one paid for a pitch and they catered for approx 18,000 people over the week. I'd go as far to say most of them were booked by chats at events leading upto croeso, by a "you all ok to come to croeso" chat. No fuss, no contracts, they know what sells and what doesn't no need for us to get into the 3rd degree of the why's and wherefores...yea we could have charged pitch fees and dropped the entry fee by 1.00 but the budget was good so why squeeze the traders in this tough economic time, we want them to survive just as much as they do...not sure everyone agrees with that sentiment
Just goes to show the gap between the generic sports administrators at BO and the membership is even wider than we thought. It must be upto the elected council members to try and reign the corporate behmoth back into some sort of membership reality, i.e. what the bog standard o'er wants. Let the administrators carry on getting money from sport england to fund their roles and the performance programme and the rest of us get on with enjoing the sport. I very much appreciate that the council members are all volunteers and will have day jobs (I have sat on BO council in a previous life so have some understanding of the role).

[DaveK]

Let the administrators carry on getting money from sport england to fund their roles and the performance programme and the rest of us get on with enjoing the sport. I very much appreciate that the council members are all volunteers and will have day jobs (I have sat on BO council in a previous life so have some understanding of the role).

+1

[awk]

Phil J: +2 (another ex-councillor)

I find Mike Hamilton's posting utterly depressing, not only for the reasons already outlined - the excessive administer-eze for what has always in the past appeared to be straightforward and amicable, but also because of its reflecting, after some years in the post, a worrying lack of understanding of orienteering.

Does he really believe that "The strategy described is being delivered on behalf of participants" or that it can possibly "enhance the event"? Which participants? What enhancement? All other considerations aside, how can it possibily enhance the premier orienteering event in the country to give a monopoly to one trader, and to throw out the range of traders that many of us have enjoyed and look forward to when we go to events like the JK and British? It might help "keep the cost of entries down" (by how much?), but the fact that the administrators seem to think that this might be an area where this is the priority just goes to underline why so many of us think that they are increasingly out of touch. Whatever Oldman might think, Bewildered's comments on another thread start to appear thoroughly pertinent in the circumstances.

In his rush to boast of being "open and transparent", Mike Hamilton has clearly forgotten that many of these people are either fellow orienteers, or those who have, in various ways, supported the sport. Taste of Wales is simply one commercial organisation with no commitment or interest in the sport other than in making money.

There are more ways than one to be "open and transparent". A bidding competition isn't about being "open and transparent", it is, if anything, about maximising income. It's certainly not about maximising the range or quality available: on enquiry about the range of vegetarian food that will be provided by Taste of Wales, Sally's response was "Please be reassured that there will be vegetarian options available such as veggie burger and jacket potato with a choice of fillings." Oh gosh, that's definitely "being delivered on behalf of participants", and will certainly "enhance the event."

Hmmmm...but then maybe what they mean by saving on the cost of entries is by encouraging us to spend less money at the event?

[Tatty]

Imagine this scenario - you are a family of 4. Dad wants a burger, Mum wants pizza, Junior wants an ice cream and Grandad is a vegetarian. From the details given for the JK yesterday this will mean queueing up at each of their 4 vans We won't bother, but will buy food outside the event each day, partly in protest and partly because we won't be bothered with all the faff. It also will be interesting to see how the prices compare.

[andypat]

yea we could have charged pitch fees and dropped the entry fee by 1.00 but the budget was good so why squeeze the traders in this tough economic time, we want them to survive just as much as they do...not sure everyone agrees with that sentiment

I dont, although I understand this point of view. I'm a member and have been fairly involved with some of the organisation of the sport recently. I would support the broad principle behind the charging for pitches at larger events. This is part of the sliding scale of getting orienteering more widely known and increasing participation by recognising its value, the top end of which involves advertising like Post-finance and getting WOC on TV (and possibly the olympic aspirations).

What we cannot have though is a one size fits all approach. So smaller events clearly dont have the value to a trader that we can charge for, but having a trader might well enhance the event (symbiosis). I think the tender approach has been an error of judgement (BOC and JK are not T in the Park) and it might have wider repercussions. But we wont know the impact of it until after the event. Its the same sort of misjudgement (IMO) as putting the flat rate levy on events down to level D. £1 on £3 is a 33% levy! £1 on £12 is 8%. How they (we?) thought that wouldnt be a disincentive to put on or attend level D events is a mystery to me.

[Electrocuted]

Imagine this scenario - you are a family of 4. Dad wants a burger, Mum wants pizza, Junior wants an ice cream and Grandad is a vegetarian. From the details given for the JK yesterday this will mean queueing up at each of their 4 vans We won't bother, but will buy food outside the event each day, partly in protest and partly because we won't be bothered with all the faff. It also will be interesting to see how the prices compare.

It seems that even if you just want a coffee or tea along with your food you will have to queue separately. Flasks for us!

Is it likely any shops will be open on Easter Sunday? I always get caught out with Easter and Sunday trading hours in England and Wales.

Incidentally, "Roast Chicken & Chips". At an orienteering event? Really? Oh for a veggie chilli with cheese and pita or some meat chilli in the nacho base with sour cream and cheese.....

[graeme]

Subject: Are you looking forward to a Wilf's veggie chilli?

yea we

One little undefined pronoun that explains the problem. Are the foodtraders part of "us" or "them"? When I volunteer, no profit comes to me, but my efforts may help create wealth for INT, SOA, ScotJos cake stall, BOF, CompassPoint, Onosh, DOLM, Forestry Commission, Scottish Tourist Industry etc. etc. And enjoyment for participants.

With Race the Castles working for Homecoming2014, my "we" is everyone on the list. BOF, it seems, terminates "we" after itself.

[housewife]

As a member of the performance squad I think I ought to point out that performance orienteering receives no funding whatsoever from sport England. Sport England money funds orienteering development (ie the elite development and talent development programmes). Elite performance is funded by the athletes with help from british orienteering. There are no elite performance staff employed by anyone, and british orienteering has to raise the money to subsidise things like the cost of paying for the elite performance squad's attendance at woc from things like membership fees etc. if you think BOC entry is expensive, I think EOC 2012 cost me £300+ in entry fees alone, which I paid for myself, along with accommodation, transport etc.