Pictorial Descriptions

[andypat]

I can't understand why some of you can't understand the problem. I'm thinking of the adult beginner who could be on a light green course in an event or two.

I fully understand your concerns about the sport not being easy for beginners, but I do think the control description is a key part of the sport. I think its something to bring into the skillset of an adult beginner at a fairly early stage, but maybe not right at the start. Its perfectly possible to plan a TD3/4 course without control descriptions as a training/coaching exercise to test the navigation techniques without worrying too much about the cd.

[pete.owens]

When you frame the question correctly, the answer becomes obvious: blown up map section with a purple dot at the site, like they do in TrailO solutions.

You must have long arms!

[awk]

I can't understand why some of you can't understand the problem.

I don't think there's anybody who doesn't understand the problem. It's just that, on balance, those people see fewer problems and more solutions in sticking to pictorials than in reverting to written descriptions.

On adult beginner courses, just identifying the control code is probably sufficient - otherwise it's rare for the position of the control not to be obvious from the map, certainly not sufficiently obscure to create those 20 minute errors.

[pete.owens]

Many doing light green are at that frustrating stage of doing quite well for a few controls, then taking 20 minutes + for some controls, or not finding the thing at all and giving up in frustration. We want people to focus on skills not factual learning at this stage IMHO.

Indeed, which is why they would have been better using pictorials when they started on orange courses. At that stage all they would really need them for is checking the control codes, but they would have got used to the layout and started to pick up the more common control description symbols. When they discussed their course after their run they might have asked about some of the unusual ones - or worked out what they meant from where they found the kite - or looked them up when they got home.

This means when they reach the start lane of their first light green course - and need to be concentrating on a new level of navigation - they don't get a sudden nasty surprise with a completely new system of control descriptions complete with a set of strange looking hieroglyphs.

[sketchweppers]

Indeed, which is why they would have been better using pictorials when they started on orange courses. At that stage all they would really need them for is checking the control codes, but they would have got used to the layout and started to pick up the more common control description symbols. When they discussed their course after their run they might have asked about some of the unusual ones - or worked out what they meant from where they found the kite - or looked them up when they got home.

This means when they reach the start lane of their first light green course - and need to be concentrating on a new level of navigation - they don't get a sudden nasty surprise with a completely new system of control descriptions complete with a set of strange looking hieroglyphs.

I am certainly in favour of keeping pictorial control descriptors in black and white for all courses above orange. If there is concern about beginners on orange or light green courses perhaps the control descriptors should always be available at registration (at level C event) so that they can ask what they mean before they get to the start. This is often the case anyway. At level B events and above the CDs are usually only available in the start lanes.
I remember my husband doing a light green the second time we went orienteering and was faced with pictorial descriptors, now knowing what he was looking for, but that was just because he was too shy to ask what they meant. So novices need to know that it is okay to ask for help with CDs when they register - put it on the final details.

[lindseyk]

For our local events I print text descriptions on the front of the map for Yellow with pictorial on the back. Orange get pictorial on the front and text on the back. A little bit of extra work but I hope it means they're gradually learning the pictorial ones.

[Nimby]

I'm sure we've all had:

"What does this mean?"
"That's a reentrant".
"Oh thanks. .. um ... what's a reentrant?"

[andypat]

I'm sure we all could benefit with occasional refreshers of control descrptions. I cant be the only one at SOUL 3 who found a tree stump where i was expecting to see a man made feature

[RanaldMacdonald]

When I checked with parents of better junior orienteers and a number of coaches most said they'd prefer pictorial descriptions from Yellow onwards, if not White. There should always be help at Registration to explain those they don't understand beforehand.

[EddieH]

I'll bet the average child at the age they start to orienteer alone will find pictorial descriptions more understandable than wordy ones.

What does "West post" mean? That had me befuddled as an adult on about my 10th course.

Most descriptions are pretty intuitive. A agree that boulder, group of boulders, boulderfield and rocky ground take more learning particularly as planners and controllers regularly get these wrong. I learned many moons ago in Australia how using these precisely enabled unambiguous control sites to be used in complex rocky ground.

[Sloop]

I don't agree with several of these postings.

I know people whose ambitions will never go beyond Orange, and for whom pictorial descriptions are completely unhelpful, and I really don't see why they should have to suffer (unless the view is they're the wrong sort of people and don't we want them to come again).

The general assumption that everybody wants to progress to TD5 is false.

[DJM]

We did a major survey of all competitors after Croeso 2012 had finished and we specifically asked the question about written descriptions for the TD1/2 courses as follows:

FOR THOSE INVOLVED WITH THE M/W 10/12, WHITE/YELLOW COURSES: No written descriptions were given for these courses; only the standard pictorial descriptions were issued. Did this cause any problems?

There were 57 respondents to this free response question, a summary of their replies being:-

41 agreed that having pictorial descriptions only caused no problems
4 said that they would have preferred written descriptions
12 gave indeterminate replies of one sort or another

One said "If you must have written ones they should be in Welsh!"

[Glucosamine]

We did a major survey of all competitors after Croeso 2012 had finished and we specifically asked the question about written descriptions for the TD1/2 courses ... One said "If you must have written ones they should be in Welsh!"

So what language will we get north of the border if the Scots vote for independence? Gaelic for the teuchters and lallans for the rest? If the Welsh have bwlch then bealach is perhaps guessable.

[roadrunner]

Indeed, which is why they would have been better using pictorials when they started on orange courses.

You're making an assumption here that an adult would start on an orange (or similar TD) course. But when I started, coming from a hill-walking rather than running background, I ran Green (would now have been Light Green); anyone doing that would be faced with the more difficult descriptions right from day 1. At the time when I started, written descriptions were the norm at most events (I suppose it wasn't as easy to print the symbols back then), and I learnt the symbols over time from club training events.

The one that always gave me trouble (whether in text or symbols) was "platform".

[madmike]

Indeed, which is why they would have been better using pictorials when they started on orange courses.

You're making an assumption here that an adult would start on an orange (or similar TD) course.

I actually started on a Brown and then moved onto M21L some 4 days later (they both took me quite a while as I recall ) It was about 6 months before I worked out that the description thingies were useful as at first I just ran to the centre of the circle (eventually) and looked around for a control flag and checked the number matched i.e. everything else on the description sheets was meaningless clutter.