Compass Sport Cup & Trophy 2014

[Blonde bombshell]

Mykind - my question was not an 'attack' on the organising club. I have always found that most/all organising clubs do their best to help where possible.
The question was aimed at the 3 clubs mentioned.

Our club team is entered by the captain, not individuals and I suspect that AIRE & LOC are the same. I was asking why CLOK, EBOR & SYO couldn't do likewise. Should they have been allowed to put the organising club 'under pressure' to let them enter differently?

Your mention of rule 6.1 only emphasises my point about fairness. Surely all teams look at their strengths & weaknesses and those of their opponents when deciding their tactics.

[SeanC]

MOR have been so successful in developing the club's membership in recent years that under the current rules they are now a "big" club and would have to enter the cup not the trophy.

Would it help if the definition of big club was done using the number of ranked members, rather than number of members? That data would be available in the BOF database.

[sketchweppers]

[quote="SeanC]Would it help if the definition of big club was done using the number of ranked members, rather than number of members? That data would be available in the BOF database.[/quote]

I suggested this during the recent review of the rules.

[andypat]

[quote="graeme"]True for us last year and this year. We figured we couldn't get a full team to the final, so it would be rude to deny others the chance. [quote]

We had a similar and fairly lengthy discussion at our club and this excuse also came up. My opinion (and no offence intended - its held by some at our club too) is that that's a slightly condescending attitude that presumes:

A - that your club will actually beat the other clubs (appreciate this may in fact be true in your case Graeme)
B - that any other club would want to attend the final having only won (or in the case of whatever club finished behind FVO, finished second) because a better club didnt enter.

I think the solution is to make the heats worth entering in themselves. For example treating the scottish heat as the Scottish final. This would obviously depend on some input from the organiser and possibly sponsors, but would avoid the inevitable discussions around whats the point of entering if you cant mobilise your club to get to the final.

[SeanC]

Out of interest, what were the rule changes in the rules following the recent review, and which committee etc decided on the rule changes? The short brown course for M40-45 is obvious, but the others (if there are any) aren't (to me at least).

[AndyC]

SeanC,
firstly note that CSC/T is not a BOF event secondly the CSC coordinator sent a questionnaire to all clubs after the last series asking for recommendations

[alanbrett]

Yes I did think of this. Is this the case, and if so what could we do about it?

I think the solution is to make the heats worth entering in themselves. For example treating the scottish heat as the Scottish final. This would obviously depend on some input from the organiser and possibly sponsors, but would avoid the inevitable discussions around whats the point of entering if you cant mobilise your club to get to the final.

This was my immediate thoughts as well, by making the qualifier more than a qualifier - ie having regional association club champions being crowned at the same event. The downside being that this might reduce the flexibility for club's choice of qualifying rounds however.

[pgupnorth]

All Club Captains were consulted on the proposed changes to the rules. A number of suggestions were made which were incorporated.

All Club Captains (and results software providers) were again consulted once the draft set of new rules were formulated and more changes were incorporated.

There is a Compass Sport Cup Steering Group, which includes past Chairs of Fixtures, Rules and Senior Competitions Groups, Compass Sport and two club representatives. All clubs via their Captains were invited to become a member of the Steering Group.

To answer a previous post the Rankings were not used to decide Cup or Trophy status for clubs because they don't include all Juniors down to M/W12.

By way of interest, in 2015 the Final is in the Lake District.

Peter
Compass Sport Cup Co-ordinator

[Oldman]

Peter, you deserve all our thanks both for coordinating these competitions over many years, and for your positive attitude, despite some occasionally unwarranted comments.

Thanks for unemotionally setting out the facts about the ongoing development of the competitions' rules.

[Karen]

Rather than keep changing the rules, do we just need a change of mindset?

Why is it considered unacceptable to enter the heats and then not go to the final?
If more clubs entered the heats, they would be better competitions - as suggested a sort of regional final. Then if a qualifying club feel unable to field a competitive team in the final, their place is offered to the next placed team. It would need cut off dates for the decisions.

Do folks think this will seriously devalue the competition?

And orienteers can change their minds.
I said a few months ago "I wouldn't want to go to Aldershot in November"
But now we have qualified.....

[denbydale]

I'm sure the SN event will be really good, definately well organised. Not much listed on the BOF fixtures list nearby on the Sunday though. Opportunity for a nearby club to move an event to that Sunday to help persuade more to come down?

I thought we were on the Saturday because this year's remembrance service was such a significant anniversary and that in general very few if any sporting events were going to be scheduled on the Sunday?

If that's the case wasn't there an alternative weekend when it could held on the Sunday?

Can't ever remember it being held this late in the year

[Karen]

From the CSC/T website (I only had to google Compass Sport Cup)

"FINAL: Saturday 8 November 2014 organised by SN on Long Valley North
The reason for this later date is due to the Race the Castles double weekend in Scotland taking the usual CSC slot. The following weekends would mean OMM and then November Classic (UKOL) clashes. The Saturday has been chosen because of Remembrance Sunday, and in addition in 2014 it is a centenary event and there has been calls for major sporting events to be cancelled or avoid this day."

[Sunlit Forres]

I think the solution is to make the heats worth entering in themselves.

Andy, your posts invariably ooze good sense. This is a good example.
I understand the reason for not being able to use the ranking list as a "big club" criterion. It's a pity that all juniors can't be ranked, but let's not go there now.

[mykind]

[quote="Blonde bombshell"]Mykind - my question was not an 'attack' on the organising club. I have always found that most/all organising clubs do their best to help where possible.
The question was aimed at the 3 clubs mentioned.

Our club team is entered by the captain, not individuals and I suspect that AIRE & LOC are the same. I was asking why CLOK, EBOR & SYO couldn't do likewise. Should they have been allowed to put the organising club 'under pressure' to let them enter differently?

Do you have any evidence at all that is not exactly what happened?

Incidentally in the info sent to club captains we did not rule out other methods of entry so perhaps you could find out from him/her why there was a problem.

Mike Hind

[SeanC]

I just assumed this was a competition with rules set by the relevant BOF committee. You learn something every day.

Because it's a successful and popular event, all the more important that it can be discussed here (hopefully in a positive and constructive way) ... it is a discussion forum. I think that's healthy for the event and the sport. Unfortunately the message about ideas never filtered down to me last year (not on the committee any more).